*sam* Posted Jul 2, 2020, 7:06 am	I have had several camp owners contact me about the far-too-high production rates coming from extraction facilities. I'm making a balancing change to this, but it will only kick in above a certain level (so non-pvp camps and those with only a low level of some resource won't be affected much or at all). I'd value your feedback, in this thread, when you see how things look over the next few days. I'm not changing the amount from weekly tithes, for now.
*goat starer* Posted Jul 2, 2020, 9:00 am	Hi sam, with tithes there are a couple of changes tat might help as these are too high as well and are creating another job of either shipping stuff out or destroying it: 1. reduce the number of tiles that have specific resources (much like radio towers) - this may also make the map for 'PVP' as at the moment resources are so distributed that you don't really need to fight for them. 2. give camp owners the ability to reject tithe (or set a maximum level). on production we have not turned our production plants on as our current camp need is being met by the tithe. I can switch it on if you like to see what it is like?
PA Racers Posted Jul 2, 2020, 10:47 am	I just adjust the production accordingly or shut it off once i have enough to last a while.
*goat starer* Posted Jul 2, 2020, 10:56 am	PA Racers said: I just adjust the production accordingly or shut it off once i have enough to last a while. yep.... if anything tithes are more problematic as a camp owner because you can't turn off the tap.. you have to manage them manually by trashing items.
*Longo* Posted Jul 2, 2020, 12:00 pm	*goat starer* said: Hi sam, with tithes there are a couple of changes tat might help as these are too high as well and are creating another job of either shipping stuff out or destroying it: 1. reduce the number of tiles that have specific resources (much like radio towers) - this may also make the map for 'PVP' as at the moment resources are so distributed that you don't really need to fight for them. 2. give camp owners the ability to reject tithe (or set a maximum level). on production we have not turned our production plants on as our current camp need is being met by the tithe. I can switch it on if you like to see what it is like? goat- you are in the south so have ample food/water with the tithe, but keep in mind this amount is not sufficient in other areas of the map.
*goat starer* Posted Jul 2, 2020, 2:06 pm	yeah... but i'm not sure it was ever supposed to be he case that all camps could be self sufficient by the tithe... wasn't the point to make it a good idea to fight for resources you need?
PA Racers Posted Jul 2, 2020, 3:27 pm	Could always give tiles up that gives stuff you don't need, lol. Storage lorrys are your friend!
Joel Autobaun Posted Jul 2, 2020, 3:48 pm	Could limit the prod for these "obtained" resourced in a more aggressive manner than the cr bleed. That way small area camps wont notice the change as much. Disagree with taking the resources from tiles... they are not the problem.
*Longo* Posted Jul 2, 2020, 4:17 pm	*goat starer* said: yeah... but i'm not sure it was ever supposed to be he case that all camps could be self sufficient by the tithe... wasn't the point to make it a good idea to fight for resources you need? Makes it much easier if I don’t have to haul food and water in, with the extra battles
*goat starer* Posted Jul 2, 2020, 6:35 pm	PA Racers said: Could always give tiles up that gives stuff you don't need, lol. Storage lorrys are your friend! It's a thought...😁 There are not enough lorries in evan to store my fuel... I'm swimming in it
FireFly Posted Jul 2, 2020, 6:39 pm	*goat starer* said: PA Racers said: Could always give tiles up that gives stuff you don't need, lol. Storage lorrys are your friend! It's a thought...😁 There are not enough lorries in evan to store my fuel... I'm swimming in it So YOUR camp is the reason for all the lakes of oil!? Stop destroying the... eeeer... beautiful texan environment!
*goat starer* Posted Jul 2, 2020, 7:05 pm	FireFly said: *goat starer* said: PA Racers said: Could always give tiles up that gives stuff you don't need, lol. Storage lorrys are your friend! It's a thought...😁 There are not enough lorries in evan to store my fuel... I'm swimming in it So YOUR camp is the reason for all the lakes of oil!? Stop destroying the... eeeer... beautiful texan environment! you have this all wrong... the grateful people of Texan, freed from the capitalist tyranny keep pumping those lakes into the Vault.
FireFly Posted Jul 2, 2020, 10:03 pm	*goat starer* said: FireFly said: *goat starer* said: PA Racers said: Could always give tiles up that gives stuff you don't need, lol. Storage lorrys are your friend! It's a thought...😁 There are not enough lorries in evan to store my fuel... I'm swimming in it So YOUR camp is the reason for all the lakes of oil!? Stop destroying the... eeeer... beautiful texan environment! you have this all wrong... the grateful people of Texan, freed from the capitalist tyranny keep pumping those lakes into the Vault. You sure it isn't actually a subversive bourgeois plan to destroy your camp by pumping it full of worthless black fluids? Watch out for saboteurs with matches!
*goat starer* Posted Jul 2, 2020, 10:29 pm	FireFly said: *goat starer* said: FireFly said: *goat starer* said: PA Racers said: Could always give tiles up that gives stuff you don't need, lol. Storage lorrys are your friend! It's a thought...😁 There are not enough lorries in evan to store my fuel... I'm swimming in it So YOUR camp is the reason for all the lakes of oil!? Stop destroying the... eeeer... beautiful texan environment! you have this all wrong... the grateful people of Texan, freed from the capitalist tyranny keep pumping those lakes into the Vault. You sure it isn't actually a subversive bourgeois plan to destroy your camp by pumping it full of worthless black fluids? Watch out for saboteurs with matches! its part of our plan to turn the camp into a bomb big enough to take out texan once and for all.
darthspanky Posted Jul 3, 2020, 12:42 am	i was running potentially 1200+ water a day to fl with a 100 percent water factory, joe turned it down to 10 percent last week, it was making 184, now its 74, guess he will need to make a second water factory, just because some players dont ship stuff out, seems wierd to punish those who can.
*Rev. V* Posted Jul 3, 2020, 4:53 am	wait, am I misunderstanding something here Darth.....? Joe *purposely* kicked it down to 10%...and you are still at 74 from a previous 184? I mean, I SUCK at math, but.... Typo?
*The X Man* Posted Jul 3, 2020, 6:00 am	100% activity stone plant was producing 1071 units a day, now it is 485 and about a 55% decrease. No complaints here, just forwarding numbers.
darthspanky Posted Jul 3, 2020, 7:12 am	was at 100 percent, when it was it was making 1200+ water units a day, then was put at 10 percent for a week, during that time it made 184 unit a day, after adjustment the 10 percent factory made 74 units.
*Rev. V* Posted Jul 3, 2020, 7:20 am	Aaaaaah...ok, gotcha. Was a bit confusing.
*sam* Posted Jul 3, 2020, 8:33 am	*The X Man* said: 100% activity stone plant was producing 1071 units a day, now it is 485 and about a 55% decrease. No complaints here, just forwarding numbers. Do the new numbers seem about right, to you? (It's not a linear reduction- I have made it so that small/non-pvp camps will see very little reduction or none at all).
darthspanky Posted Jul 3, 2020, 8:58 am	i thought it was high as well, but only made stone at my camp when i was in it, wont production bonusess just raise it again?, did they say the dw money was too much?, i personally thought it was high myself, some large camps wont need to scout to earn money now and dont want to fight or ship the stuff they have, just think thats kinda funny. whats even funnier i now ss is more profitable for gas production, someone or groups of people been dumping feul in ss 15k cans in stock, too easy to make in ss and itss now oil central, some of us had to ship it all down from sv or further, since last game year took me all that time to get 17k cans just to gw, havent even started selling mine yet, seems way out of wack imo. one solution would be to put a cap on how much gas can be produced in ss and how much food down south, unlesss you wanted people to all get rich, monty hall time, south has more food produced and sold than the ss food areas, and ss more gas produced and sold than down south. lol
*sam* Posted Jul 3, 2020, 12:25 pm	darthspanky said: whats even funnier i now ss is more profitable for gas production, someone or groups of people been dumping feul in ss 15k cans in stock, too easy to make in ss and itss now oil central, some of us had to ship it all down from sv or further, since last game year took me all that time to get 17k cans just to gw, havent even started selling mine yet, seems way out of wack imo. This is something I just realised too, and I have made a rule change  to give a softcap on the number of extraction facilities of a particular type (oil, water, food etc.) a camp can make effective use of. I'm not sure what happened in this particular case though.. I can't see any camps with lots of oil plants. It's possible someone has been shipping it in a more legit way.
*Dark Tempest* Posted Jul 3, 2020, 12:50 pm	Will the effects of the soft cap be visible?
*Longo* Posted Jul 3, 2020, 1:45 pm	Yes, please explain. You adjustments cut my gas in 1/2, so I tore a building down and was going to add another oil factory. We have a relatively large landmass and a lot of gangs contributing, so I would like to know if I will be wasting my time doing this.
*sam* Posted Jul 3, 2020, 4:59 pm	*Dark Tempest* said: Will the effects of the soft cap be visible? 2 buildings will be approx 1.5 times as good as 1 4 buildings will be 2.0 times as good as 1 8 buildings will be 3.0 times as good as 1
*sam* Posted Jul 3, 2020, 5:00 pm	*Longo* said: Yes, please explain. You adjustments cut my gas in 1/2, so I tore a building down and was going to add another oil factory. We have a relatively large landmass and a lot of gangs contributing, so I would like to know if I will be wasting my time doing this. Sorry about the sudden changes - I'm reacting to some crazy amounts of goods being produced by people with lots of food tiles and lots of pumpkin fields, leading to millions of $ per day in profit.
*Longo* Posted Jul 3, 2020, 5:28 pm	*sam* said: *Longo* said: Yes, please explain. You adjustments cut my gas in 1/2, so I tore a building down and was going to add another oil factory. We have a relatively large landmass and a lot of gangs contributing, so I would like to know if I will be wasting my time doing this. Sorry about the sudden changes - I'm reacting to some crazy amounts of goods being produced by people with lots of food tiles and lots of pumpkin fields, leading to millions of $ per day in profit. Thanks, I see the numbers above and will adjust accordingly.
darthspanky Posted Jul 3, 2020, 5:31 pm	*sam* said: darthspanky said: whats even funnier i now ss is more profitable for gas production, someone or groups of people been dumping feul in ss 15k cans in stock, too easy to make in ss and itss now oil central, some of us had to ship it all down from sv or further, since last game year took me all that time to get 17k cans just to gw, havent even started selling mine yet, seems way out of wack imo. This is something I just realised too, and I have made a rule change  to give a softcap on the number of extraction facilities of a particular type (oil, water, food etc.) a camp can make effective use of. I'm not sure what happened in this particular case though.. I can't see any camps with lots of oil plants. It's possible someone has been shipping it in a more legit way. it could have possibly  been from when all those gas cans were added to the towns some time ago, people may have bought them up and just now delivering it.
PA Racers Posted Jul 3, 2020, 5:55 pm	[quote=darthspanky][quote=*sam*][quote=darthspanky] it could have possibly been from when all those gas cans were added to the towns some time ago, people may have bought them up and just now delivering it.[/quote] Yup! Seen someone bragging about that in lobby couple weeks ago.
*sam* Posted Jul 12, 2020, 11:31 am	I have just made another tweak to the production calcs (which were still way too high especially if you had a lot of extraction plants). Let me know your observations. Also: I have changed fuel so that it's separately tracked as 'extractable' (which comes from some swamps) versus 'tithe only' (which comes from roads). Anyone who has built oil plants based on fuel from roads, and who wants a refund on their outlays - send me a PM.
darthspanky Posted Jul 12, 2020, 7:52 pm	im not making any trade goods atm at shanty camp but turned on ammo plant, will these calculations affect ammo production?
*sam* Posted Jul 12, 2020, 9:21 pm	darthspanky said: im not making any trade goods atm at shanty camp but turned on ammo plant, will these calculations affect ammo production? No, these changes are to extraction (fuel, water, etc.) not production (factories).