*sam* Posted Jun 17, 2020, 9:59 am	I'm reducing the amount of camp fame that will be gained from pvp battles. First, to clarify how you get camp fame from pvp battles: it comes mostly from internal hits on vehicles with skilled gangers in (whether there are character injuries or not isn't relevant). A resigned car will still yield fame when hit (it would be exploitable otherwise.. resign half your cars at the start). A car with no characters in (or with only low skill characters in) will yield very little. Unconscious characters yield very little even if high skill. The existing calculations for fame gain in these situations were made in a different time - when pvp battles were very rare, and when a camp having high fame didn't directly impact its enemies. In addition, hex tiles now give your camp strategy points, so to leave the fame gain calcs unchanged would be too much. Finally, the numbers are simply too high: left as-is, a single combat where a skilled ganger or two took a number of internal hits would give enough fame gain to effectively win the whole war (since the camp would get such a fame boost that they'd field massive CR for the next few weeks). I'll continue to monitor the calculations, of course, and adjust later if necessary. What I'm trying to achieve is a balance between "hex" victories and "damage" victories -- both of which should be considered partial victory conditions.
Grimm Sykes Posted Jun 17, 2020, 11:18 am	so the trick would be to field a bunch of small cars with only 1 weapon each and put new recruits in. This way the opponent would never gain much fame from taking these cars out. Am I understanding this correctly?
*sam* Posted Jun 17, 2020, 1:35 pm	Grimm Sykes said: so the trick would be to field a bunch of small cars with only 1 weapon each and put new recruits in. This way the opponent would never gain much fame from taking these cars out. Am I understanding this correctly? That would work, yes. The opponent would, however, win every battle and claim every tile.
Joel Autobaun Posted Jun 17, 2020, 2:08 pm	So vault going to lose fame for probably a crap ton of fame they got for killing one buccy? (and no blue text : good to know).
Joel Autobaun Posted Jun 17, 2020, 2:26 pm	*sam* said: Grimm Sykes said: so the trick would be to field a bunch of small cars with only 1 weapon each and put new recruits in. This way the opponent would never gain much fame from taking these cars out. Am I understanding this correctly? That would work, yes. The opponent would, however, win every battle and claim every tile. Well we are going to find out about that.
*sam* Posted Jun 17, 2020, 2:38 pm	Joel Autobaun said: So vault going to lose fame for probably a crap ton of fame they got for killing one buccy? (and no blue text : good to know). Can you give me the event ID? I'll check it.
Joel Autobaun Posted Jun 17, 2020, 2:49 pm	*sam* said: Joel Autobaun said: So vault going to lose fame for probably a crap ton of fame they got for killing one buccy? (and no blue text : good to know). Can you give me the event ID? I'll check it. I think it was s1035382. The camp`s fame dropped by 74 due to the combat between CDLS and The Red Menace. In addition, its production boosts dropped by 74% That fame drop exceeded embassy's loss as well which just floors me.  One buccy lost no blue text.
*Ninesticks* Posted Jun 17, 2020, 5:11 pm	Yep that seems wildly out of whack.
*sam* Posted Jun 17, 2020, 5:26 pm	Joel Autobaun said: *sam* said: Joel Autobaun said: So vault going to lose fame for probably a crap ton of fame they got for killing one buccy? (and no blue text : good to know). Can you give me the event ID? I'll check it. I think it was s1035382. The camp`s fame dropped by 74 due to the combat between CDLS and The Red Menace. In addition, its production boosts dropped by 74% That fame drop exceeded embassy's loss as well which just floors me.  One buccy lost no blue text. Fame isn't gained from blue text, it's from internal damage. The way it works is, you gain a lot more from causing damage than the amount the enemy loses. So in the case of the recent Embassy battle, they managed to claw back a lot of what they would have lost, through the internals they managed to score in response.
Joel Autobaun Posted Jun 17, 2020, 8:54 pm	*sam* said: Joel Autobaun said: *sam* said: Joel Autobaun said: So vault going to lose fame for probably a crap ton of fame they got for killing one buccy? (and no blue text : good to know). Can you give me the event ID? I'll check it. I think it was s1035382. The camp`s fame dropped by 74 due to the combat between CDLS and The Red Menace. In addition, its production boosts dropped by 74% That fame drop exceeded embassy's loss as well which just floors me.  One buccy lost no blue text. Fame isn't gained from blue text, it's from internal damage. The way it works is, you gain a lot more from causing damage than the amount the enemy loses. So in the case of the recent Embassy battle, they managed to claw back a lot of what they would have lost, through the internals they managed to score in response. I get that (now). They barely scored internals comparatively. Mostly i am guessing the vault got some very good bonuses for wreaking a buccy and its engine. Since kingdom of longo lost 85% of its bonus...i wonder if vault should.
*sam* Posted Jun 17, 2020, 8:59 pm	Joel Autobaun said: Since kingdom of longo lost 85% of its bonus...i wonder if vault should. Yeah, that's fair enough. It's no where near the same magnitude of course (we're talking 17x as much in the Embassy battle).
*goat starer* Posted Jun 17, 2020, 9:03 pm	*sam* said: Joel Autobaun said: Since kingdom of longo lost 85% of its bonus...i wonder if vault should. Yeah, that's fair enough. It's no where near the same magnitude of course (we're talking 17x as much in the Embassy battle). to be fair we have won every battle we have competed in. We should be rolling in fame.
Joel Autobaun Posted Jun 17, 2020, 9:08 pm	*goat starer* said: *sam* said: Joel Autobaun said: Since kingdom of longo lost 85% of its bonus...i wonder if vault should. Yeah, that's fair enough. It's no where near the same magnitude of course (we're talking 17x as much in the Embassy battle). to be fair we have won every battle we have competed in. We should be rolling in fame. You should have exactly how much fame the system(new one now) should give.
*Longo* Posted Jun 17, 2020, 9:12 pm	*goat starer* said: *sam* said: Joel Autobaun said: Since kingdom of longo lost 85% of its bonus...i wonder if vault should. Yeah, that's fair enough. It's no where near the same magnitude of course (we're talking 17x as much in the Embassy battle). to be fair we have won every battle we have competed in. We should be rolling in fame. By the power invested in me, as Head of the Church of Longo, I do give you(and your allies) the ability to hire 8 new gangers...unless you have already filled them since the battle The Red Menace Vs Camp David Strategic Ops Event ID    S1032487
*goat starer* Posted Jun 17, 2020, 9:17 pm	*Longo* said: *goat starer* said: *sam* said: Joel Autobaun said: Since kingdom of longo lost 85% of its bonus...i wonder if vault should. Yeah, that's fair enough. It's no where near the same magnitude of course (we're talking 17x as much in the Embassy battle). to be fair we have won every battle we have competed in. We should be rolling in fame. By the power invested in me, as Head of the Church of Longo, I do give you(and your allies) the ability to hire 8 new gangers...unless you have already filled them since the battle The Red Menace Vs Camp David Strategic Ops Event ID    S1032487 ah yes... one of the many we won. You Americans have never really understood war with communists :-)
Joel Autobaun Posted Jun 17, 2020, 9:33 pm	Quote: ah yes... one of the many we won. You Americans have never really understood war with communists :-) Unfortunately they will over the next few years.
Joel Autobaun Posted Jun 18, 2020, 3:24 am	Not sure if this is already implemented...but scouting from camp is yielding really pathetic... umm PVE camp fame gains. like 1 fame lol
*The X Man* Posted Jun 18, 2020, 6:26 am	Joel Autobaun said: Not sure if this is already implemented...but scouting from camp is yielding really pathetic... umm PVE camp fame gains.  like 1 fame lol This has never really given out any decent gains. Scouting towards camp is where the bigger gains can be earned.
*Longo* Posted Jun 18, 2020, 7:06 am	*The X Man* said: Joel Autobaun said: Not sure if this is already implemented...but scouting from camp is yielding really pathetic... umm PVE camp fame gains.  like 1 fame lol This has never really given out any decent gains. Scouting towards camp is where the bigger gains can be earned. No X, there is an issue. I scouted twice towards camp And got 2 and 1
*The X Man* Posted Jun 18, 2020, 7:28 am	I just tested it as well. Scouted towards camp S1040633, 14 reds and only 6 points of fame. That is not good considering 2 days ago, S1040028 with 17 reds and got 31 fame.
*Ninesticks* Posted Jun 18, 2020, 7:43 am	Wait, no hue and cry, wailing, tearing of hair and gnashing of teeth about the retroactive application of a clarification/change? I wonder why...
*goat starer* Posted Jun 18, 2020, 8:11 am	*Ninesticks* said: Wait, no hue and cry, wailing, tearing of hair and gnashing of teeth about the retroactive application of a clarification/change? I wonder why... hmmmm...
FireFly Posted Jun 18, 2020, 8:40 am	I thought my memory was just poor lol, only got 3 fame on a camp scout with a bunch of reds yesterday as well. I dunno man, totally agree with the pvp fame reductions but having to do so many pve scouts is a bit harsh dude
*sam* Posted Jun 18, 2020, 10:35 am	*The X Man* said: I just tested it as well. Scouted towards camp S1040633, 14 reds and only 6 points of fame. That is not good considering 2 days ago, S1040028 with 17 reds and got 31 fame. Sorry, fixed now. Yesterday's changes reverted if it's a PvE.
*Longo* Posted Jun 18, 2020, 3:42 pm	*Ninesticks* said: Wait, no hue and cry, wailing, tearing of hair and gnashing of teeth about the retroactive application of a clarification/change? I wonder why... I brought The Kingdom's huge bonus to Sam's attention. Why would I complain about it after I told him it needed to be changed? If it stayed, I won at Darkwind.