camp wars is a sick joke
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darthspanky Posted May 30, 2020, 6:50 am |
what was it all the new people will have fun in camp wars lol, only camp wars ive seen have been overmatched fights with vets or fake wars to earn extra fame and get camp production bonus to almost 100 percent, fight your neigbor friend whose gunners cant hit with a hvmg at 26 meters, win and get a 40 percent boost to your camp lol,
not working sam unless you wanted people not fighting with multiple borders or fighting for huge production bonuses on fake wars, too much corruption imo, hate to tell ya but its not going to work unless thats what ya wanted. i certainlyly wont be playing patty cake fake wars with my buddies only to raise my camp fame/production thats for sure. |
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joemcfarnham Posted May 30, 2020, 1:35 pm |
Me and Darth discussed this yesterday, unfortunately camp wars pvp is heavily open to exploit.
Possible fix, fame is boosted similar to the HP system you only get the boost when a ganger with specs is killed 50+ skill. So no "friendly" pvp happens for free boosts.... |
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*Rev. V* Posted May 30, 2020, 2:22 pm |
I think we just have to let it sort itself out for a bit.
This is a pretty substantial undertaking, so there are bound to be hiccups and changes made along the way. Sam’s a pretty good cat herder. |
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Krakhedd Posted May 30, 2020, 2:48 pm |
The CRs are seriously imbalanced, and there's no way to make sure there's even a fair fight. I was compelled to not deploy a ton of CR, anticipating a camp attack, which I had no idea if Vault would try or not. Joel proved a number of great points last night, as did Nubs & X in their event. We should have another Town Hall sooner than later | ||||||
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*goat starer* Posted May 30, 2020, 3:26 pm |
That is literally the the game krak. We made good deployment choices.... You are beaten on those tiles. That is what is supposed to happen.. and that is why there is a concede button. To avoid you feeling the need to time grief us on unwinnable tiles.
it's what we would do if you out thought us in placement. Anything else is bad sportsmanship and fundamentally griefing (especially if you double down by refusing to negotiate anti social times). |
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Joel Autobaun Posted May 30, 2020, 3:55 pm |
Why? It's clear only some are listened to? Prove my points and get called EXPLOITER. I'm done. No more talk from me. |
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Tez Posted May 30, 2020, 5:03 pm |
We should have a town hall very soon. Tomorrow if possible | ||||||
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*goat starer* Posted May 30, 2020, 9:47 pm |
i think the map game is much better than the fights. 
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*sam* Posted May 31, 2020, 12:27 am |
Since the best thing to have camps fight over is resources, maybe production bonuses should be loaded into the hexes rather than gained through fighting/blue texting. | ||||||
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joemcfarnham Posted May 31, 2020, 12:56 am |
Certainly would be less abuse-able, not a bad idea. | ||||||
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*goat starer* Posted May 31, 2020, 12:59 am |
i like that. it also means there is less incentive to kill other peoples gangers which is not great for the game. |
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Dropdeadfred Posted May 31, 2020, 1:12 am |
This is a really good idea |
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*Longo* Posted May 31, 2020, 1:25 am |
Change the game name to Light-wind, Hugs on Wheels? 
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*The X Man* Posted May 31, 2020, 5:52 am |
If players don't have a chance to test out the camp war waters, we won't be able to discuss and make adjustments to make the format better. Your complaint about production was tested to see how it would be based on the SCL model. There was no way to know a 40% increase would have been rewarded. So there is no way for you to say or think it was intentional. If it bothers you that bad, Sam can take away the increase. Yes, this is something that can be abused and it needs adjusting or changed. Offer up some ideas. Insulting other players with comments on their PVP choices and game play were unnecessary. A bigger help would have been to offer help or suggestions to that player on how to do better or be more competitive. You have to realize that players with minimal or no PVP experience will struggle. It is up to us, the camp owners, to help and mentor. |
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*sam* Posted May 31, 2020, 10:47 am |
What's your argument against what I suggested? It's nothing to do with making the game softer. It's about (a) removing a loophole and (b) making (genuine) camp wars more attractive to take part in. The single best way to make people fight is to have them compete over resources. |
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darthspanky Posted May 31, 2020, 11:09 am |
xman i have been offering up suggestions and they are ignored, and its not my job to mentor noobs, i find some player i like and scout with them, the rest can do what i did and learn it yourself.
sam, why if you want them to fight over rescorces lmao, ive been shipping 17000 feul cans from my sv camp to gw took me a game year and ive moved about 12000 to gw so far, only to look at the prices of a can of feul drop by 500 a can from when i first started shipping them, whats the point of fighting over rescorces and cant sell them in the town my camp is in because no market and then to move those resources to sell at the town i can get most money for them only to see prices drop, i can make more selling water from fl camp to fl and ii can ship alot more even easier than from sv, id rather see you fix markets so prices dont change so much, i had 25k units of water at ss camp i was going to sell in gw prices crashed 150 a water unit, made camp recourses worthless, people are not going to fight over worthless stuff that price constantly crash. ill offer another suggesstion so this too can be ignored, you want to sell those hard fought over recourses, not too many fight tho because thats bad, then have bulk deals of recourses you have 500o units of water at your ss camp, create misssions like car esscort missions but to do it shipping recourses make ? amount for shipping ? ammount of water to a particular town. |
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*HarryRed* Posted May 31, 2020, 11:15 am |
theres cool resources coming soon bro we're workin on it |
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*sam* Posted May 31, 2020, 12:48 pm |
I meant resources in a wider sense: production boosts as a resource you get from tiles. Obviously people aren't going to fight over oil/water. |
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*Bastille* Posted May 31, 2020, 1:08 pm |
I don't think $1200 (or what ever it was in GW) per can could ever be considered the going rate. I dunno. We don't much understand markets. You had to tell us to take more money off you for paint jobs 
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*Longo* Posted May 31, 2020, 1:34 pm |
90% of hexes so far have been grabbed with no battle. Why would this generate bonus/fame? Also darth makes a valid point about food/water/fuel. Market is kinda messed up with these. |
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Valiance Posted May 31, 2020, 2:13 pm |
While I'm not excited about the camp wars, I AM excited about the idea of a new type of mission to deliver x amount of resources (water, fuel, car parts, whatever) to a town.
And if you added the possibility for a player to set those missions so people can automatically take resources to that player's camp, even better :-) |
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*sam* Posted May 31, 2020, 3:51 pm |
Thanks for your input. Would this pretty much be the camp offering a certain $ per unit as long as their stock was below a level they had set? |
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Valiance Posted Jun 1, 2020, 8:21 am |
I don't own a camp, so I don't know what a camp owner would want. (Any input from camp owners here).
What I would want as a courier: - To find it in the tavern with the other missions - To have a specific obligation to fulfil: "deliver yyy car parts / water / fuel / whatever to Camp ZZZ by date (probably about 5 days away). - For the delivery to hapepn automatically if I roll into the camp in time - For the money to be paid to me automatically when I arrive / deliver. There is an obvious question about how do you make sure that the camp owner has the money / can they afford to have multiple orders out etc, but that would be for a camp owner to say. |
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*sam* Posted Jun 1, 2020, 9:33 am |
Thanks. Yeah the funds could be escrowed.
Actually, the missions should be in both directions I reckon.. camps are going to have goods they want to get delivered to town. I had always envisioned this kind of thing happening, but didn't think that it would have to be system controlled to work. If it does, that's fine. (Thanks too to Darth for suggesting this, by the way). |
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*goat starer* Posted Jun 1, 2020, 10:04 am |
shipping stuff out will be a big thing. |
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Effy Posted Jun 1, 2020, 10:53 am |
I would love some "system controlled" missions like this.
For bringing items to the camp it would really help having it system controlled. If we, non camp owners, may find more profitable moving things to camps than the "standard" courier between cities instead of training a scout bringing mail, we could be bringing some resources to a camp. And also, timezones may differ and you almost never cross this elms camp owner but you could really do that job for a good price. About getting them out... there's the risk of losing the cargo, i don't know what kinds of stuff camps need to get out, but any "high priced" item for town sale... maybe i wouldn't put it on a new ganger with "high" chances to lose it. If there's no kind of SS Bank insurance it may be a liability... or even open the doors to malfeasance where someone who is against that camp owner could just ask to bring camp items somewhere just to "lose them". I don't really know if it would be cost effective for camp owners. |
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Tez Posted Jun 1, 2020, 11:50 am |
I'm not sure if those types of missions are needed for camps now. It's now possible to get all the resources under one camp. They would be cool for towns though, x town wants y amount of z resource and will pay more than the market rate. | ||||||
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*sam* Posted Jun 1, 2020, 12:05 pm |
There's a lot of non-pvp camps who this would still be useful for |
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*Longo* Posted Jun 1, 2020, 12:58 pm |
+1 |
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ShawnFireDragon coldmolasses@live.ca Posted Jun 1, 2020, 1:28 pm |
 The more missions and the deeper the world of DarkWind becomes makes me crack a wicked grin. Gives two thumbs up.
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darthspanky Posted Jun 1, 2020, 1:33 pm |
the prices in ss has gone from little over 500 a can to about 750 a can, in just a few days, ss was where i had plans on selling the feul being shipped, it used to be 1200 to 1100 or so a can, in the past the more i delivered the price would rise, once a few game years ago i had a large stash of cans in gw and price jumped to higher prices than ss, so i sold it in gw.
hired valance to deliver 750 cans of gas to ss from gw and gave him 1000 so he keeps 250 cans for himself, seemed like a good deal, but if prices go down we all make less money shipping feul, i dont want overpriced unreasonable prices, like it was in the past when players used camp roads to delived all their cans of gas from deep south texan to elms with no encounters, that was clearly a exploit im glad i never participated in it, but to move it the correct way town to town you should get a set price, no fun to work hard shipping all that feul to watch prices crash closer you are to finnally selling it after moving it all year. |
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*sam* Posted Jun 1, 2020, 2:42 pm |
Good point. Makes me think a simpler approach might be better.. camps have a market which they use to buy and sell directly, rather than promising fees for goods delivered. Could certainly be promoted in some kind of bulletin board in Dexter's. |
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ShawnFireDragon coldmolasses@live.ca Posted Jun 1, 2020, 2:54 pm |
Great point Sam. It is hard to promote anything on the camp markets.
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Dropdeadfred Posted Jun 1, 2020, 6:25 pm |
The player base is small and scattered across multiple time zones/continents. Anything that helps automate things a bit so that when I play at during 'normal' US hours, I can see what the people over in Europe need done and can do it.
So you want static prices so your level of profit is always there? Sorry, that's not really how a market works. I hope with the economy changes coming up, a real, ever-changing market throughout the towns emerges. There's sooooo many games out there with this functionality. It would be a huge step backward to have static prices once the economy is improved upon. |
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*Rev. V* Posted Jun 1, 2020, 7:59 pm |
Yeah, but at the same time, consider a real world comparison.
Say you're an independent trucker....or a manufacturer. You're most definitely NOT shipping stuff (or hauling it) and then simply HOPING you get a good price for your stuff when it gets there. |
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Dropdeadfred Posted Jun 1, 2020, 8:07 pm |
This isn't real life.
This isn't real life. This isn't real life. But lets use real life analogies then for a second. This is an apocalypse. The trader purchasing goods is only going to purchase goods if he NEEDS them. Bob and Sally, two different truckers, are both bringing in Fuel. Sally gets there first, selling her truckload of fuel to the trader for a tidy sum. The trader's fuel storage is now mostly full. Bob shows up, tries to sell his fuel. The trader doesn't really need his fuel. Doesn't even really have room to store it. But, he'll still offer a smaller price for the fuel. He'll be inconvenienced, looking for storage for all of it. Having to pay for extra security at these newer storage facilities cuts into the bottom line as well, hence the lower offering price. Supply and Demand. It's a pretty simple concept, even in the apocalypse. More real life analogies. Currently, a manufacturer, or a trucker, wouldn't be shipping anything unless the goods were paid for ahead of time. So unless we have the internet or cell phones in Evan, a fluctuating market is where it's at. Want a static payment? Run a courier mission. |
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Bigbadgreen86 Posted Jun 1, 2020, 8:26 pm |
Agreed |
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darthspanky Posted Jun 1, 2020, 11:40 pm |
you know nothing about putting in hard work shipping all that from town to town, or how hard it could be if you never tried it, and yeah there should be a similar pricetag, lots of ways to make money in this game, 3mil escort misssions is another one and alot easier that shipping 3k feul for a similar price, if you have never done it yourself then keep your noob opinions to yourself. | ||||||
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Dropdeadfred Posted Jun 2, 2020, 2:38 am |
No, I will not. Keep your elitist attitude to yourself
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darthspanky Posted Jun 2, 2020, 3:07 am |
damm i wish you were pvp open | ||||||
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Dropdeadfred Posted Jun 2, 2020, 3:33 am |
Damn I wish you weren't so toxic
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Valiance Posted Jun 2, 2020, 8:03 am |
I am not a big fan of fluctuating economies in games. They always sound much cooler than they really are; they make it much harder to design for fun; they optimise for a tiny handful of elder game players who can play the market well. (Much like the real world...)
We already have a market system. Adding one to the camps would do something to improve it, but not much. For a brief moment, we had a lovely consensus that we should add a new mission type to deliver goods to camps for a fixed price. That is about the best way I can think of to start involving players in the camp ecosystem for a sufficient risk/reward to make it interesting. Then it killed by "realism" and "this should be the miserable apocalypse". That makes me sad. I was excited about this new mission type for a brief moment. |
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*sam* Posted Jun 2, 2020, 8:31 am |
I haven't dropped it. Although it is difficult making decisions in a sea of opinion. I'm somewhat concerned about how many camps actually need this though. The pvp ones really need the opposite, mostly (take stuff away from camp) but it's a much harder one to do unless they're simply selling it to you. |
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darthspanky Posted Jun 2, 2020, 9:10 am |
all i know is im not doing this make 17000 cans of gas in shantyville to ship it all to ss again takes over a game year to ship it all, just add 20,000 cans of gas to every town like before so the poor noobs have gas, then looking at the prices drop when i finally start to deliver it to ss, total bs ill just deliver water to fl from a fl camp and make more money alot faster, trying to offer suggestions doesnt work with all the noobs who never understand how difficult it is running thier uninformed mouths.
i tried selling the feul in shanty for 250 a can, got no takers, cant even give stuff away in shantyville no takers on a almost mint trash truck for free, back then they would have made 1k profit from each can, said it was too expensive. |
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Manfred VonRichthofen Posted Jun 2, 2020, 3:25 pm |
Even with 0 fuel cans for sell in SS you can still refuel your cars.. so why bother?? You need to travel? then make a tanker with a muscle car and a large fuel tank, refill it then you are ready to go.
Just change this mechanic (refilling your fuel tanks vs dollars) and maybe add a little more fuel spawns on traders and maybe we'll start to have a new economy around fuel. That and the future medecines revamp, is a good way to make the goods something else than just cosmetic items (again sorry for my english) |
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PA Racers Posted Jun 2, 2020, 5:14 pm |
How about have missions for camp goods be started by camp owner agreeing to sell x amount of goods to town of choice for x amount of $. Then mission appears in purchasing town for someone to accept. Once accepted camp has choice to accept delivery or not, depending on weather they want them in their camp or not. If the camp approves, they put goods on camp market to get picked up. Once delivered to town, town pays camp, and pays delivery fee to courier. Price of goods should pay camp less than what it would have been had they hauled it themselves, and courier fee should be enough to make it worth the trouble, and go up the higher the risk. | ||||||
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Madbooth Posted Jun 2, 2020, 7:04 pm |
Camp missions should go to camp members i dont want to be trying to accept camp missions in a town to be told no by players (who are just being asshats)
Why do camps need missions anyway why cant they just agree to it and it be based off trust just like taxis and many other things on darkwind????? |
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*Rev. V* Posted Jun 2, 2020, 7:27 pm |
I'm not sure that it's for the camps, it's for extra stuff for players to DO besides scouting and racing.
But like Sam said, if the camps don't NEED it, it's not worth putting the work into it. |
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*goat starer* Posted Jun 2, 2020, 9:00 pm |
I love the fact that this serious discussion about camp markets and new player missions is for some reason taking place within a thread titled "camp wars is a sick joke".
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Valiance Posted Jun 3, 2020, 8:45 pm |
Sometimes I think you are just in this game for the lols, goat :-) | ||||||
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*goat starer* Posted Jun 4, 2020, 7:29 am |
I always assumed that was why people played games |
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*Rev. V* Posted Jun 4, 2020, 12:25 pm |
I’m just here for all the cool stuff we get to do in the marshals lobby. | ||||||
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*goat starer* Posted Jun 4, 2020, 7:35 pm |
Ah man.. that stuff is wild! Sometimes I wish everyone here could do that stuff! |
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*Dark Tempest* Posted Jun 4, 2020, 8:05 pm |
lol |