*sam* Posted May 12, 2020, 11:52 am	This adds camp wars related functions: - the ability to escape characters, even inside cars, during camp wars battles - the winning team is now given the option to decline looting
*Dark Tempest* Posted May 12, 2020, 12:43 pm	*sam* said: - the winning team is now given the option to decline looting Could this be extended to all PvP as an option?
*sam* Posted May 12, 2020, 1:13 pm	Yes. I should have done it at the same time. Will add soon.
*The X Man* Posted May 12, 2020, 3:28 pm	*sam* said: This adds camp wars related functions: - the ability to escape characters, even inside cars, during camp wars battles - the winning team is now given the option to decline looting Will this include incapacitated characters inside the vehicle? Currently, you would have to pull them out of the vehicle with another character before they can be safely escaped. And should it be included??? I would say to let these changes play out first in camp wars to make sure all works to players expectations. I am sure some of the vets will be able to fully test out with strategies and tactics if anything negative is possible. Also, would like to hear from some of the main PVPers, thoughts and input. Whether or not players realize, diluting the PVP waters will forever change the risk and how the game will be played.
*Ninesticks* Posted May 12, 2020, 4:20 pm	*The X Man* said: Whether or not players realize, diluting the PVP waters will forever change the risk and how the game will be played. +1 good point and well presented
darthspanky Posted May 12, 2020, 4:50 pm	only isssue i see is the revenge factor, someone reds one of your guys and you try to red them back and poof they disapear then talk smack, my bet is it will eventually happen.
Joel Autobaun Posted May 12, 2020, 5:15 pm	darthspanky said: only isssue i see is the revenge factor, someone reds one of your guys and you try to red them back and poof they disapear then talk smack, my bet is it will eventually happen. Arguing... side comments and backhanded insults have been the real PVP since 2009. Im done.
*sam* Posted May 12, 2020, 6:21 pm	*The X Man* said: *sam* said: This adds camp wars related functions: - the ability to escape characters, even inside cars, during camp wars battles - the winning team is now given the option to decline looting Will this include incapacitated characters inside the vehicle? Currently, you would have to pull them out of the vehicle with another character before they can be safely escaped. And should it be included??? I would say to let these changes play out first in camp wars to make sure all works to players expectations. I am sure some of the vets will be able to fully test out with strategies and tactics if anything negative is possible. Also, would like to hear from some of the main PVPers, thoughts and input. Whether or not players realize, diluting the PVP waters will forever change the risk and how the game will be played. Good points, XMan. See how it plays out here first before committing to broader usage. Yes, this even includes incapacitated characters. The goal is to go as far as we can to mitigate risk to characters. Like all changes, it can even be removed later. This is what we agreed at our meetings about camp wars, though..
*Ninesticks* Posted May 12, 2020, 6:32 pm	Diluting it is not necessarily a bad thing, it could go either way. Will be interesting to see how it pans out.
*Longo* Posted May 12, 2020, 8:15 pm	*Dark Tempest* said: *sam* said: - the winning team is now given the option to decline looting Could this be extended to all PvP as an option? *sam* said: Yes. I should have done it at the same time. Will add soon. This will be great for SCL.
*goat starer* Posted May 12, 2020, 9:01 pm	*sam* said: *The X Man* said: *sam* said: This adds camp wars related functions: - the ability to escape characters, even inside cars, during camp wars battles - the winning team is now given the option to decline looting Will this include incapacitated characters inside the vehicle? Currently, you would have to pull them out of the vehicle with another character before they can be safely escaped. And should it be included??? I would say to let these changes play out first in camp wars to make sure all works to players expectations. I am sure some of the vets will be able to fully test out with strategies and tactics if anything negative is possible. Also, would like to hear from some of the main PVPers, thoughts and input. Whether or not players realize, diluting the PVP waters will forever change the risk and how the game will be played. Good points, XMan. See how it plays out here first before committing to broader usage. Yes, this even includes incapacitated characters. The goal is to go as far as we can to mitigate risk to characters. Like all changes, it can even be removed later. This is what we agreed at our meetings about camp wars, though.. if you really wanted to mitigate risk to characters without removing all impact you could simply make it the case that any character who 'dies' in a camp war event is simply put in a coma and returned to town. And missing limbs still happen.
*Bastille* Posted May 12, 2020, 9:24 pm	that would probably prevent any 'issues' I didn't see my dude was dead, or those freak face through brain, chest through heart or similar.
*The X Man* Posted May 12, 2020, 10:14 pm	One other item that everyone should be aware of, especially new to PVP players who think this is a safety net to never lose a character. You take 4 RLs into a breached side, then decide to remove characters, you can still die. The instant removal of characters from the vehicle does not mean death will never happen. Its just a way to prevent it if you know when to surrender and before the melee of bullets head your way.
*The X Man* Posted May 12, 2020, 10:52 pm	Last item to clear up is when during the firing phase will your character be removed? Say after the end of turn 30, you decide to remove a character. When turn 31 begins, will they be removed then? After the character completes a firing command? Or after the completion of all firing commands for turn 31? This makes all the difference to insure a safe character removal from the event to a last second shot to a breach. I will bring this up because I know others will. If psionics are allowed, they can be used anytime during the firing phase. Will selecting the immediate removal function cancel any last attempts to use psionics before the character is removed from the event?
*Bastille* Posted May 12, 2020, 11:15 pm	well, you'd think so. Not that they can fire and escape.
*Longo* Posted May 12, 2020, 11:40 pm	*The X Man* said: If psionics are allowed, they can be used anytime during the firing phase. Will selecting the immediate removal function cancel any last attempts to use psionics before the character is removed from the event? If you can fire that phase, you should be able to use psionics and vise versa. Whatever the decision is it should be fair like that. And I do see what your saying.
*sam* Posted May 13, 2020, 5:09 am	*The X Man* said: Last item to clear up is when during the firing phase will your character be removed? Say after the end of turn 30, you decide to remove a character. When turn 31 begins, will they be removed then? After the character completes a firing command? Or after the completion of all firing commands for turn 31? This makes all the difference to insure a safe character removal from the event to a last second shot to a breach. I will bring this up because I know others will. If psionics are allowed, they can be used anytime during the firing phase. Will selecting the immediate removal function cancel any last attempts to use psionics before the character is removed from the event? They get removed in the normal way, so it's at the end of the next turn. Apart from any gameplay decisions, the sequence for these things is very important to avoid server crashes (null pointers and such).
*The X Man* Posted May 13, 2020, 7:33 am	*sam* said: *The X Man* said: Last item to clear up is when during the firing phase will your character be removed? Say after the end of turn 30, you decide to remove a character. When turn 31 begins, will they be removed then? After the character completes a firing command? Or after the completion of all firing commands for turn 31? This makes all the difference to insure a safe character removal from the event to a last second shot to a breach. I will bring this up because I know others will. If psionics are allowed, they can be used anytime during the firing phase. Will selecting the immediate removal function cancel any last attempts to use psionics before the character is removed from the event? They get removed in the normal way, so it's at the end of the next turn. Apart from any gameplay decisions, the sequence for these things is very important to avoid server crashes (null pointers and such). So this sounds as it will be as it is currently. But for the point I am making above, this is how it happens. At the completion of a turn, you set the firing orders for the upcoming turn. At this point, you can exit a character from a vehicle, target and pyro a vehicle, then select escape. When the firing phase starts, that character vanishes from the play field first before any weapons start firing. There are other players that feel making 3 separate firing order commands in just one actual turn is an issue. The other reason bringing this up is that new PVP players may not know this is how it works. That being said, I personally do not have an issue with this, but I do feel it is necessary that everyone is made aware of this going forward to avoid complaints.
*Longo* Posted May 13, 2020, 9:07 am	*The X Man* said: *sam* said: *The X Man* said: Last item to clear up is when during the firing phase will your character be removed? Say after the end of turn 30, you decide to remove a character. When turn 31 begins, will they be removed then? After the character completes a firing command? Or after the completion of all firing commands for turn 31? This makes all the difference to insure a safe character removal from the event to a last second shot to a breach. I will bring this up because I know others will. If psionics are allowed, they can be used anytime during the firing phase. Will selecting the immediate removal function cancel any last attempts to use psionics before the character is removed from the event? They get removed in the normal way, so it's at the end of the next turn. Apart from any gameplay decisions, the sequence for these things is very important to avoid server crashes (null pointers and such). So this sounds as it will be as it is currently. But for the point I am making above, this is how it happens. At the completion of a turn, you set the firing orders for the upcoming turn. At this point, you can exit a character from a vehicle, target and pyro a vehicle, then select escape. When the firing phase starts, that character vanishes from the play field first before any weapons start firing. There are other players that feel making 3 separate firing order commands in just one actual turn is an issue. The other reason bringing this up is that new PVP players may not know this is how it works. That being said, I personally do not have an issue with this, but I do feel it is necessary that everyone is made aware of this going forward to avoid complaints. To play devils advocate on this, the way this is set up also helps the pyro opponent. In COE, when firing goes live, the pyro player has to use his skill before everyone actually fires, and the results are seen instantly. This allows the opponent that was pyroed upon, to switch from the weapon he was going to fire, man his car fire extinguisher, and put the fire out the same turn that the pyro started the fire. Change this up, and the cars actually will get to burn a full turn and the tears will roll from the community that their save all fire extinguishers are now broken.
*goat starer* Posted May 13, 2020, 5:08 pm	*Longo* said: *The X Man* said: *sam* said: *The X Man* said: Last item to clear up is when during the firing phase will your character be removed? Say after the end of turn 30, you decide to remove a character. When turn 31 begins, will they be removed then? After the character completes a firing command? Or after the completion of all firing commands for turn 31? This makes all the difference to insure a safe character removal from the event to a last second shot to a breach. I will bring this up because I know others will. If psionics are allowed, they can be used anytime during the firing phase. Will selecting the immediate removal function cancel any last attempts to use psionics before the character is removed from the event? They get removed in the normal way, so it's at the end of the next turn. Apart from any gameplay decisions, the sequence for these things is very important to avoid server crashes (null pointers and such). So this sounds as it will be as it is currently. But for the point I am making above, this is how it happens. At the completion of a turn, you set the firing orders for the upcoming turn. At this point, you can exit a character from a vehicle, target and pyro a vehicle, then select escape. When the firing phase starts, that character vanishes from the play field first before any weapons start firing. There are other players that feel making 3 separate firing order commands in just one actual turn is an issue. The other reason bringing this up is that new PVP players may not know this is how it works. That being said, I personally do not have an issue with this, but I do feel it is necessary that everyone is made aware of this going forward to avoid complaints. To play devils advocate on this, the way this is set up also helps the pyro opponent. In COE, when firing goes live, the pyro player has to use his skill before everyone actually fires, and the results are seen instantly. This allows the opponent that was pyroed upon, to switch from the weapon he was going to fire, man his car fire extinguisher, and put the fire out the same turn that the pyro started the fire. Change this up, and the cars actually will get to burn a full turn and the tears will roll from the community that their save all fire extinguishers are now broken.  the bug that allowed to to swap weapons after fire orders had been set and fire a different weapon has not worked for me for ages. So as far as I can see this is not possible. I always assumed Sam had fixed it.
*Longo* Posted May 13, 2020, 5:26 pm	*goat starer* said: *Longo* said: *The X Man* said: *sam* said: *The X Man* said: Last item to clear up is when during the firing phase will your character be removed? Say after the end of turn 30, you decide to remove a character. When turn 31 begins, will they be removed then? After the character completes a firing command? Or after the completion of all firing commands for turn 31? This makes all the difference to insure a safe character removal from the event to a last second shot to a breach. I will bring this up because I know others will. If psionics are allowed, they can be used anytime during the firing phase. Will selecting the immediate removal function cancel any last attempts to use psionics before the character is removed from the event? They get removed in the normal way, so it's at the end of the next turn. Apart from any gameplay decisions, the sequence for these things is very important to avoid server crashes (null pointers and such). So this sounds as it will be as it is currently. But for the point I am making above, this is how it happens. At the completion of a turn, you set the firing orders for the upcoming turn. At this point, you can exit a character from a vehicle, target and pyro a vehicle, then select escape. When the firing phase starts, that character vanishes from the play field first before any weapons start firing. There are other players that feel making 3 separate firing order commands in just one actual turn is an issue. The other reason bringing this up is that new PVP players may not know this is how it works. That being said, I personally do not have an issue with this, but I do feel it is necessary that everyone is made aware of this going forward to avoid complaints. To play devils advocate on this, the way this is set up also helps the pyro opponent. In COE, when firing goes live, the pyro player has to use his skill before everyone actually fires, and the results are seen instantly. This allows the opponent that was pyroed upon, to switch from the weapon he was going to fire, man his car fire extinguisher, and put the fire out the same turn that the pyro started the fire. Change this up, and the cars actually will get to burn a full turn and the tears will roll from the community that their save all fire extinguishers are now broken.  the bug that allowed to to swap weapons after fire orders had been set and fire a different weapon has not worked for me for ages. So as far as I can see this is not possible. I always assumed Sam had fixed it. It’s not a bug goat. You don’t have to target. Just fire the fire extinguisher. So what I said above is true. It’s just the mechanics.
*Bastille* Posted May 13, 2020, 8:09 pm	so pyros can fire and escape in the same turn as they use their ability instantly and the effect takes turn instantly and can also still fire that turn iirc. So I can drive my muscle car really fast into danger until right next to some dude, have ram on my car, use pyro at someone at point blank and escape, my car can then ram some dude? cool.
*goat starer* Posted May 13, 2020, 8:14 pm	*Longo* said: *goat starer* said: *Longo* said: *The X Man* said: *sam* said: *The X Man* said: Last item to clear up is when during the firing phase will your character be removed? Say after the end of turn 30, you decide to remove a character. When turn 31 begins, will they be removed then? After the character completes a firing command? Or after the completion of all firing commands for turn 31? This makes all the difference to insure a safe character removal from the event to a last second shot to a breach. I will bring this up because I know others will. If psionics are allowed, they can be used anytime during the firing phase. Will selecting the immediate removal function cancel any last attempts to use psionics before the character is removed from the event? They get removed in the normal way, so it's at the end of the next turn. Apart from any gameplay decisions, the sequence for these things is very important to avoid server crashes (null pointers and such). So this sounds as it will be as it is currently. But for the point I am making above, this is how it happens. At the completion of a turn, you set the firing orders for the upcoming turn. At this point, you can exit a character from a vehicle, target and pyro a vehicle, then select escape. When the firing phase starts, that character vanishes from the play field first before any weapons start firing. There are other players that feel making 3 separate firing order commands in just one actual turn is an issue. The other reason bringing this up is that new PVP players may not know this is how it works. That being said, I personally do not have an issue with this, but I do feel it is necessary that everyone is made aware of this going forward to avoid complaints. To play devils advocate on this, the way this is set up also helps the pyro opponent. In COE, when firing goes live, the pyro player has to use his skill before everyone actually fires, and the results are seen instantly. This allows the opponent that was pyroed upon, to switch from the weapon he was going to fire, man his car fire extinguisher, and put the fire out the same turn that the pyro started the fire. Change this up, and the cars actually will get to burn a full turn and the tears will roll from the community that their save all fire extinguishers are now broken.  the bug that allowed to to swap weapons after fire orders had been set and fire a different weapon has not worked for me for ages. So as far as I can see this is not possible. I always assumed Sam had fixed it. It’s not a bug goat. You don’t have to target. Just fire the fire extinguisher. So what I said above is true. It’s just the mechanics. i dont understand... i cant change fire orders during a turn. if you pyro i a have to wait till the end of the turn to reassign a gun and fire order.. so it makes no odds where in the turn sequence you deploy pyro. I cant see how i could make my fore extinguisher fire the same turn in response to a pyro at the beginning of it.. or am i being thick?
*Bastille* Posted May 13, 2020, 8:26 pm	because you see the effects of pyro immediately. You see the concussion hit and the subsequent fire start, during orders phase. Before firing phase. The target could then change their mind what they want to to, use their FX on that vehicle before firing phase even starts. EDITED to make clearer.
*goat starer* Posted May 13, 2020, 8:31 pm	*Bastille* said: because you see the effects of pyro immediately. You see the concussion hit and the subsequent fire start, during orders phase. Before firing phase. The target could then change their mind what they want to to, use their FX on that vehicle before firing phase even starts. EDITED to make clearer. no one with pyro doesnt know full well they need to be the last to tap in when they do this. They just want you to think you could do it.
*Bastille* Posted May 13, 2020, 8:58 pm	yes, could do and then it spirals into a time grief as you point out. Could psi be held to firing phase? Including the concussion hit? Normally speed applies. Then if you fail and knock yourself out you lose control and suffer the consequences that turn. I guess then its impossible to see in the text, what is going on. Especially in a bit fight. Make it light blue? I'm sure there is something else I'm missing here
*goat starer* Posted May 13, 2020, 9:19 pm	*Bastille* said: yes, could do and then it spirals into a time grief as you point out. Could psi be held to firing phase? Including the concussion hit? Normally speed applies. Then if you fail and knock yourself out you lose control and suffer the consequences that turn. I guess then its impossible to see in the text, what is going on. Especially in a bit fight. Make it light blue? I'm sure there is something else I'm missing here what you are missing is why it was so easy to nerf sniper... but apparently so hard to nerf pyro.