MR X Posted Aug 26, 2019, 1:27 am	First this is a wonderful game that is very deep and is a lot of fun to play. The problem lies in the learning curve, or more accuratly the progression curve. I understand the warnings about scouting alone, but if you want to play this game and not wait for a vetran to go out scouting with you this game is just not worth playing. In a game were as a new player you already have to wait hours for your cars to be repaired or prepared also waiting for availability of a vetran player to go scout with you makes this a game a wast of screen time vs actual playing time. Mind you its not the permadeath or the general difficulty of the game im talking about, its the abstract means at which it seems to come to the level to the difficulty of the individual encounter. I would change two things to fix this. 1) lower the CR ratio based on scout, the fact is to develop a ganger with scout skill worth having takes time, a lot of time. Scouting without one of these scouts generaly leads to encounters that are around or over a 2:1 ratio in CR. This means that your most unexperianced and underdeveloped players are running into a more difficult foe than vetran players with better equipment. The result is predictable, one the new player loses everything they have and start over again. 2)Returns being based on CR with captured equipment. If you are not a vetran player or with a vetran player this is doom. add the fact that scout determins the posiblilty and CR of a return this again specificly hinders new players. I appreciate the helpfullness and want to help of the vetran players, this game has a small wonderful community. I understand that you all have done it, but simply put if i can only play this game with one of you around its not a game for me, nor do i think that many more will join your community. I don't say this out of spite, but out of frustration. I like many others just dont have the commitment of time required to get to open world that this game offers. This to me is a direct result of a under refined encounter system, and one that i feel could be refind better given the many other more complex aspects this game has.
Grimm Sykes Posted Aug 26, 2019, 1:58 am	well first off, you can repair cars without waiting for them by using upgrade button to fix normal damage on anything except chassis
Zazul Posted Aug 26, 2019, 4:17 am	I had similar frustrations when starting out, but i got some decent advice on safe strategy from some veterans and I personally did all of my beginner training solo. This is definitely not a "beginner" friendly game by any means, but I promise if you stick it out until it clicks for you, you will be glad you did. If you decide to hang around and try a bit more, I'd talk to Grimm or Xman about some starter tips, and read up on a couple beginner posts here on the forums. If you decide not to play anymore, I understand and wish you the best!
*Longo* Posted Aug 26, 2019, 4:54 am	DW isnt for everyone. But the toughness is what makes you keep coming back. I have been playing for over 10 years and I still end up in a mess occasionally. The community is great as you said. If you play alot, read up on some strategy guides on the wiki or in these forums, and pay chrome to train, you will get better and be able to scout whenever you want. Im not on everyday anymore, but when I am on and not in a scout, I am happy to help you out either in scouts or strategy. If you move on, I understand. Remember, Dark-wind isnt perfect, but its still up and running and providing some serious fun after 12 years!
ShawnFireDragon coldmolasses@live.ca Posted Aug 26, 2019, 10:30 am	Mr X, I would like to share a tip with you that helped me develop strategy and skill that allow me to have better chances to survive the environment in the lands of Evan. In the lobby there is a tab called 'Recordings' here you may look up and speculate all the player events in DarkWind. By looking at any gangs 'Events' on their WebPage you can find the event # of the wilderness encounter you may wish to observe. Enter this # in the 'Recordings' and you can watch in detail the strategy and technique the player has used to master the event, or the mistakes and blunders the player may have made. Both outcomes teach a lot of great lessons. It takes time to study and understand what a player does but with the Ctrl and F1,F2,F3 you can know the speed, distance and more. This will allow you to truly see what each vehicle is doing. Remember to keep an eye on the color of the ring that circles the selected vehicle allowing you to know how the morale is going for the crew inside. I am sure other players will provide you with Event #s to guide you to the events that are relevant in the type of scout you may wish to observe and learn about. I have used this and encouraged others. I feel it helps see the great ideas others have and the mistakes that can be made. It even shows the bad hands that can be dealt in the wasteland. In time you may find those bad hands as sweet as the easy victories. I myself have laughed out loud finding the resolve and need to come back stronger than ever from being run into the bloody sand. I would be happy to answer any questions you may have. Stay Frosty, FireDragon Out.
Groovelle Posted Aug 26, 2019, 3:41 pm	Scouts are your lifeblood. They're the guys who read the maps, understand the lay of the land, know where certain gangs' ambush spots are, and can talk their way out of any trouble, provided you didn't murder your way into a confrontation. In the misadventure you had, you had five vehicles go out and come back with 10 cars total - doubled your cars via grand theft auto - great. Here's the thing. The scout you used to take those five cars out was some schlub. He had a scout skill of 29, when a fresh 17 year old hire can be brought in with 26 skill. You can get 3 skill in one scout - this guy leading 10, juicy, loot-filled cars through the desert had only left the town once in his life. In movie terms, he arrived in Mad Max's wasteland, had heard of a map before, wasn't sure of the difference between the autobahn and a dirt road, had left the town center once on a dare, and was chosen by you to bring a $100,000 of cars through Immortan Joe's shooting range after robbing Toecutter. Narratively, you're the guy in the opening scene who decides he's done taking out the trash at the local ratburger joint and gets his buddies getting high in the parking lot to go steal Lord Humungus's favorite car - this had to have ended badly. I think the issue is you're treating Dark-wind like a game. In a game, you log in, do your dailies, and eventually you stumble into being the chosen one who the Queen consorts with to topple the next god of Murder - or something. Here, you're the Vault Dweller's personal assistant's cousin's dogwalker. Get a car. Fast car. Run it out of town to see what the roads are like, where the Slavers hang, and how to use the last ridge to keep alive long enough to get over the next hill. Once you're able to discern the difference between 'Yield' and a head on a pike, see if you can direct you and another car or two through to intercept someone who will definitely let you go - a trader. You can attack him if you want, that's not the point. You should want to see if he's guarding his fuel truck with wet pool noodle and hope. Once you're experienced, then you can try pissing off the entire wastes by shooting people and taking a town's worth of cash-in-vehicles as your trophies. Until then, learn to read a map.
*Splurs* Posted Aug 26, 2019, 8:28 pm	I am always happy to help, and I am on most days. Most of the time I will run a big scout to help newbies get more cars. However this is not to be duplicated by newbies, I have personally been there before taking out alot of firepower only to be overwhelmed and killed. Its not fun, and can lead to rage quitting. Here are a few easy tips: 1. Run a fast car with a big fuel tank from SS-Elms, back and forward, hauling whatever bulk goods sell in the other town. This trains scout AND gets you used to the maps. 2. Hunt traders, if you take out 2 cars you generally get 2-3 cars against you. 1 or even 2 will be traders so you only need to deal with the escort car/s, let the traders go if your getting too shot up. 3. ALWAYS leave room in your cars for your original gangers to get back in if you have a return, leave the loot cars and run for gates if you cant fight. 4. Gangers are hard to replace, cars are not. Surrender all cars if you have to. People might not agree with them, or have better ways of doing it, however that is how I learnt, if wasnt the most profitable ways sometimes, however it was safe. If you want I can even supply you with some mercs, to show you what i mean.
*goat starer* Posted Aug 26, 2019, 10:42 pm	spot on splurs I would add... 1. scout small and fast. run away rather than fight if you cant win. i started this game with new gangers doing 2 pho scouts 4 times. Its hard but entirely manageable.
*The X Man* Posted Aug 27, 2019, 4:43 am	Also, most new players tend to expect instant returns or rewards when it comes to scouting. Every scout encounter ends and you try to loot every car thats available. Mistake, especially when these are heavily damage cars with bad engines/weapons. If you cant run away or fight with them, leave them alone. Instead, use the chance of a town arrival encounter to get your coveted cars/loot. This way when you win that encounter, you can take all you can drive/carry without risk because this ends the scout. Profitability significantly increases, while loss of gangers/vehicles is almost eliminated. The key as a new player is not how much you try to do, but knowing where and when to do them. Following this general rule would most likely changed your mind and keep you around playing a bit more.
JehovahNissi Posted Aug 27, 2019, 5:12 pm	I had to chime in ... and I have to say I think you don't have it in you, buddy. ... at least not yet. When I first started I was not only green to the game, but much more green to life. As I've matured, so has my gaming. You have like 30 people all telling you how to make this happen ... most of them are the same basic principles, and each one has something you could take away and make your very own..... You just don't want it bad enough. You want to do it YOUR way, or just blame the game. That's okay. DW is not for everyone. In fact, out of all my gaming friends that I've told about this, ZERO have made it more than 10 minutes ... the tutorial, and then a cry session about waaaaahhhhhhhh turn based waaaahhhhh when we know the truth ... Steep learning curve, and older graphics. You do what you gotta do.... but it isn't the game. It's you not wanting to listen and think this through. If you stick around, we can help you ... if you flee, that's okay too ... We'll see won't we? Good luck man, was fun. I'll probably be here if you come back.
MR X Posted Aug 27, 2019, 9:54 pm	Thank you for the advice all, and honestly not trying to put down the game at its core. Ironicly I love the premise and find that its the only game out their that takes me back to one of my faviort PC games to play as a kid Autoduel. my issue is with the NPC matmaking as it is and I Stand by the statement. I have logged in for about a week now pretty consistently, I've found that it is pretty much the same 20 core players that are on at any given time with very little if any exceptions. This is really the point I was making I understands their are workarounds to the issues I am having, but I feel it would be better to fix the system then develop work arounds to it. Nissi your probly correct with honest assessment, I want a game more to my personal playing style and vision and this will never be that because its not my development, what is so frustrating is how close it is to something I could really enjoy and realy most of it falls on one abstract factor. anyways like I belive I said with my original post I don't see this changing, but if anyone is still developing and would like to move it from a nitch game of 20 fathfull it might be something to look at.
*goat starer* Posted Aug 27, 2019, 11:07 pm	X.. you have arrived at this game on the tail of its popularity... the days when there would be 200 people in the lobby are long gone, and that certainly makes scouting harder. Fixing the system of a game that has been around for a decade and is late in life is a) not worth it and b) possibly not really necessary since the system served most people perfectly well. it has always been niche... and always will be niche... but it was a much larger niche in heyday.
*The X Man* Posted Aug 28, 2019, 3:28 am	MR X said: I have logged in for about a week now pretty consistently, I've found that it is pretty much the same 20 core players that are on at any given time with very little if any exceptions. This is what almost every new player would hope to see on the client. A solid group of players that play DW together. Players that are willing to take the new guy along. This is how friendships develop thru these groups and make game play more enjoyable. All the issues you have about DW become less a factor when you are part of that core group. Scouting becomes more manageable, profitability from these encounters are more lucrative, character training and skill increases become easier. I guess all I can finish with is don't take for granted what other players hope they can get when they login. Reading the above posts, there are a lot of players who offered help or suggestions. You are still a subscriber, so take advantage of those offers before it runs out. If you want real DW fun, get a crew to Morgan and help with town defenses, PM me once you get there or if you need help.
limaechogolf Posted Oct 2, 2019, 11:48 pm	MR X i was also an Autodueler GREAT GAME. I say quit. Everyone else does. Ive quit at least 3 times. I keep coming back because this is the closest thing to Car Wars there is and back 30 years ago Auto Duel was the closest thing to Car Wars. Maybe one day one of these stellar programers/designers will take this overhaul it and improve it but its not happening. Just quit you quitter. But if you don't quit there are alot of great People here trying to help. No other game have i ever played has frustrated me this much. But im still here. See me in the lobby shoot me a message ill scout with you and we will have fun and kill raiders and not worry about it.
*Bastille* Posted Oct 5, 2019, 2:34 pm	wow, hadn't noticed this post. Woulda givenya stacks of gear
Zazul Posted Oct 5, 2019, 4:41 pm	LOL if I say i'm quitting you give me some phat stacks too?? XD