Scav Improvements
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*The X Man* Posted Jun 8, 2015, 4:43 am |
As most of you in the Scav community already know, I have adopted a Scav Gang of my own. After 3 weeks in, I have been drawn back in to DW on a different level. Challenging with more hands on approach to character development and a complete change in tactics and strategy. Just that alone has grabbed my interest enough to help give Scav the attention it deserves.
My monthly meetings with Sam have been mainly targeting improvements or changes that will be a benefit to all players. Since Scav has been overlooked by many, including myself, I have decided that it needs attention too. Being labeled hard and too difficult to maintain keeps most players from trying it. After my brief time into Scav, I don't feel that those tags are really accurate, but it is definitely challenging. So, to get a more balanced game, a few changes will need to be implemented to allow for even the most novice player to succeed. With the help of tenured Scav player's input and my actual game play and interaction with them, we comprised a list of items that would make the most positive impact. 1) The ability to obtain better weapons thru regular game play. You shouldn't have to rely solely on league play to get rare weapons in Scav. You also shouldn't have to relocate your entire gang to the South where most of those weapons are more frequently available to loot. But it can't be too easy either. So, effective immediately, all successful trader Scav scouts will now have the possibility of getting a special loot item. This will occur in the same way it does in regular DW. Remember, there is a "Chance" of getting that special item, not a guarantee. This change was done during the meeting and we should all thank Sam for the extra time he put in today to make this happen. 2) The ability to obtain goods and ammo varieties. This change is in the works and not yet available. When implemented, this will allow the chance to loot more items and/or ammo types after a successful encounter. This may be more prominent on trader scouts where the loot bulk is much larger. These are small steps at improving the Scav experience, but ones that were needed start bringing in and retaining new players to this part of DW. Thanks to the players who put in the time and helped me with these suggestions. There are still other ideas remaining that will be discussed at the next meeting. As changes happen, I will post updates for you here. |
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*goat starer* Posted Jun 8, 2015, 6:59 am |
hate 1. there are so many more useful things that could be done with trader loot than this. It is possible to turn up almost every weapon through scouting. just creating mixed trader cargo would have been fine (and would have made regular more interesting as well).
right now i have mortars, anti tank guns, tank guns, 5lv8s and i dont play the leagues o any town events.... i had most of this stuff just from Gateway - stupid trader drops is just creeping nonsense. lazy ss players wanting things without working for them. Its pathetic and exactly what scav was not supposed to be. What traders need to drop is occasional decent ammo... there are some weapons that you cannot currently get in scav... but they should be made available to loot in npc builds and narrative missions and should be in the far flung corners.. not chucked out of a lorry in an easy trader hunt in somerset. It is just stupid. there is a developers forum these things could have been discussed in. there is a whole set of suggestions worked up between scav players. This didn't feature in that at all. Why it is the first implemented change is beyond me and another example of wasting Sams time rather than getting him to do useful things. You aint going to get any thanks from me for using sams very limited time for scav up on stupid changes. |
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*Brunwulf* Posted Jun 8, 2015, 7:37 am |
I have to agree with Goat on this.
The main thing SCAV has always needed is more varied ammo. Strange that Scav changes are finally being made without input from Goat or myself- the 2 most experienced Scavvers over the past couple of years?! However- thanks X MAN for starting to champion SCAV- it is after all, what DW should be, so better late than never! |
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*The X Man* Posted Jun 8, 2015, 7:42 am |
Most of what I posted on changes came directly from the list you sent me. I went over that list with Sam and he came up with a simple solution that was easy enough to implement on the spot. So there was no wasting his time. These changes will be monitored and adjustments can be made based on how they affect the game. Yes trader drops with a variety, including ammo, is #2 on the above list. Sam said that requires a little more time to do, but it will be done as the next item to implement. |
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*goat starer* Posted Jun 8, 2015, 7:55 am |
at no point have i ever suggested that rare weapons should appear in trader drops. I have only ever been interested in the simple weapons - not the esoteric stuff - like oil jets and hand flamers. in particular the ones where you end with loads of ammo that is unusable.
clearly something has been rather disasterously lost in translation. and if it didnt take any time why are you asking us to thank sam for taking time to do it? 
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*The X Man* Posted Jun 8, 2015, 8:08 am |
Goat, Sending you a personal PM instead of airing this out in the forums. | ||||
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*Boonwolf* Posted Jun 8, 2015, 9:13 am |
Don't see that this brakes the game in any way or make it easer other than giving a drop in SS. So the LRR (ooooo Exotic gun huh) that dropped out of my trader hit that took the life of my L2 really makes the Scavs easy Goat? you want ammo for it to bad brake the next one.
Don't get me wrong I would walk away if I looted 100 mags of ammo or something stupid like that. but I have played scvas 2 years now and still haven't looted anything better than a HMG. I will be watching to see what drops and if it seems over the top I will be the first to see that its cut back or ended, but until that point lets see. Brun you still even play scav? |
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*goat starer* Posted Jun 8, 2015, 10:59 am |
brun scavs a lot... and in 2 years of playing not that often i had mortars, HGGs, car cannon...... i got my first HGG and ATG in Somerset. |
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*Brunwulf* Posted Jun 8, 2015, 11:14 am |
I do SCAV still- but new camps are taking up all my time ATM.
I am currently sorting out my scav stuff and getting it all back to SS, so that I can scout with all the new Scavvers. In a few days my camps in NORM will be taking care of themselves, and I have a TT in GW that I need to move to SS, which will make a cool Scav monster! I have tons of weapons, ammo, fuel, parts etc that I am getting back to SS- so in a few days I am going to be mainly Scavving- as Scav has always been my fave part of DW, and i'm very excited every time I see so many << >>'s in the lobby!!!! So, to all who have invited me on Scav scouts over the last week- I apologise- I will be ready in a few days. SCAV RULES!!!! |
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*Boonwolf* Posted Jun 8, 2015, 11:25 am |
will cool to scav mega some day soon.
So far I have ran 4 scouts or more after the change to drop system. Spawned the drop 1 time in a group scout. im under the impression after talking to X that the drops will be inline with the town. so no CC HCR Lasers TGs MMs should be dropping im SS. If by chance something like that would drop in SS I will report it and offer it as a prize in some scav only event. |
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*Boonwolf* Posted Jun 8, 2015, 11:48 am |
Still would like to see a use for EPs and plastics.
Maybe use it to take some of that pre stem 21% damage off my McFly. so its more like my 95% Phos that were shot to hell on scouts after steam. 
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Bolt Thrower Posted Jun 8, 2015, 2:41 pm |
I don't like the idea of special loot drops from traders. I don't want to see TGs popping in SS like I have in normal.
The biggest thing scav needs is better break points for mech. Scav should be like camps minus the manufacturing part. Needing a 100 mech to fix a 3.2Lv8 is fine, but a 2L should have a lower requirement. Maybe if guns and engines required a mech skill of 1.25 times the required MR. Same with chassis and armor. C armor can be add with mech skill 0.33*MR, can fix chassis and add B armor at 1*MR, and can add A armor 1.25 or 1.5 times MR. Something like this. Then different cars become viable. Do I want to use a C armored pho or an A armored symphony. |
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*goat starer* Posted Jun 8, 2015, 2:55 pm |
this was on the list.... and it should go higher as well... to have a blanket "i can fix anything" at 100 is silly on a scale that goes from 1 - 500+. lasers should need the top end of that... HGGs somewhere high up.... the scale is fairly well set in regular for camp builds. |
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*The X Man* Posted Jun 8, 2015, 6:36 pm |
Yes, Scav mechs was mentioned, but we need more specifics on a graduated skill scale. I do agree that mechs need something like this in place. Goat was working on this already. Once he has a list in place, it will be presented to Sam. | ||||
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Taco Posted Jun 9, 2015, 2:27 am |
I know I don't have a pair of *s around my name but I have been pretty active in the <<scav>> world since I started playing like nine months ago. unfortunately I was binging on Civ V and Steam the last few weeks and I missed any discussion for <<scav>>.
is there a place you would like to put suggestions in for <<scav>>? I have a few simple ones and creative ideas I would love to share. it seems like a lot of the newer players are getting excited about <<scav>>and now would be the perfect time to make some simple changes for the better. <<scav>> is my favorite mode of the game and would love to help make it better. Taco |
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*goat starer* Posted Jun 9, 2015, 6:55 pm |
Why not put them here? |
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*The X Man* Posted Jun 9, 2015, 7:23 pm |
Yes , this would be the appropriate thread to list any Scav suggestions. | ||||
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Taco Posted Jun 10, 2015, 5:10 am |
since it seems work is being done on fixing ammo on the loot adn reward tables. I only have a couple of suggestions I can think of at the moment.
I recently made 100 mech, and repaired a bunch of engines and weapons. the sad part was probably half or more were beyond repair, below 85%. for <<scav>> I think we should be able to break down equipment in town like the others do in camps. this would make it easier to repair things with more parts. also, gear that is broken down in camps and yields electronic parts, maybe we can substitute electronic parts for car parts. things like v8s and GGs. Taco |
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Taco Posted Jun 10, 2015, 5:13 am |
can we put tires on the reward list for events? especially in towns down south? I have two Phos I won in FL ANCs that I took to BL but have sat there for months w/o tires.
Taco |
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*goat starer* Posted Jun 10, 2015, 8:55 am |
Surely that one could just be resolved through trade? |
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*goat starer* Posted Jun 10, 2015, 8:56 am |
There is the silly issue that a chassis destroyed in the field yields mor car parts and scrap than one dismantled by a competent mech in town. we could also do with a use for EPs and plastics.... i would suggest that repairing certain complex items should require EPs. |
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*The X Man* Posted Jun 10, 2015, 5:27 pm |
EPs and Plastics are only used by camps in production of weapons, engines and chassis, but have no real use in Scav. What it be too farfetched in Scav to have and use a highly skilled mech, 200+, 250+, 300+ or even higher... that they would have the ability to take a beat up 4L engine, and with the proper amount of EPs (and CPs and Scrap), they could rebuild it into a 3.2L V8??
This would not be a function with a click of the button, presto... a new engine. This would need to be a tasking chore and drawn out similar to how items are built in camp. 1, 2 ... 4?? weeks as an example, with the mech required to stay in the town where it is being rebuilt. Things like this would create value to items that are currently worthless in Scav. It would also give players incentive to collect and trade materials, but most importantly, giving them reasons to continue mech training beyond 100+. |
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Bolt Thrower Posted Jun 10, 2015, 6:02 pm |
1. I could see boring it out to a 5L. But if a 5L is a v6, I imagine a 4L is a v6, and will not be convertible to a v8. 2. I think EP and plastics should be used for repair. I don't think scavs should be able to manufacture unless Scavs are moved out of towns into a camp like environment where they have to maintain mechs for max CR and be cognizant of lockup space. And manufacturing should exist as both an opt-in communal activity or as a lone garage activity to increase the choices players make. Opt-in to get higher MR but have to share or make your own stuff. 3. I suggested in my thread a reason to go higher. Based on what I suggested, an FE would require a 200 mech to fix the chassis and add B armor and a 250-300mech to add A armor. |
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*goat starer* Posted Jun 10, 2015, 7:02 pm |
I'm not sure it really works to make the chassis need higher mech skill... And the 0. 50. 100 spit for C. A. B. Armour works for me. I think we just need to scale the repairs of weapons and engines more in line with the full range of mech skill. My sadly deceased 350 mech was no more use than my current 130 mech.
I quite like the modification thing. If not that car parts and eps allow to reengineer something then simply that you can use eps and plastics like chrome to repair Perma damage and upgrade kit. As eps are mind bogglingly rare without the ability to break down kit I can't see this as being game breaking. Sufficiently high mech + x eps + y plastics = upgrade or Perma repair |
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*Brunwulf* Posted Jun 10, 2015, 7:33 pm |
Yep- what he said! 
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*Brunwulf* Posted Jun 10, 2015, 7:39 pm |
I would hate to see SCAV mechs nerfed too much- as they are SOOOOOO much harder to train up than in normal, where you can grind them out in 'safe' scouts, stick them on CHR training, and spec up in a couple of weeks.
My top mech in SCAV took literally months to get to 100+, and was at least my 4th attempt. I actually once lost a 95 mech in SCAV and was very nearly actually close to tears! |
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*goat starer* Posted Jun 10, 2015, 8:48 pm |
You should try losing a 350 mech with 22 specs |
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*The X Man* Posted Jun 10, 2015, 9:11 pm |
That would be disastrous! Bruns's dogs would need to be placed into K9 Witness Protection Program! 
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*Brunwulf* Posted Jun 10, 2015, 10:16 pm |
HAHAHAHA- LOL- luckiliy the dog was out on walkies when it happened! I didn't even lose another mouse! |
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Fr33Bird Posted Jun 11, 2015, 3:20 am |
X-man,
Something that we can all agree on is that more attention on the current state of Scav is a good thing. There has been an influx of new players, and with it there seems to be more interest in scav. I'll agree that what appears to be the most difficult part of becoming established is the ammunition. (MG is really the only ammo that comes up fairly frequently in events.) Training mechs are very difficult. You only get points if you demolish a car, and in scav you are doing your best to not wreck it. On perhaps a positive note in this, I like that it causes players to collaborate in their craft skills as well as trading. Not sure if there might be other balancing that we haven't thought of. |
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*goat starer* Posted Jun 11, 2015, 8:54 am |
i still think the ammo issue is really easy to solve if you have traders drop the odd unusual clip. I have piles of GG, CR and RL ammo and would happily swap many clips for a single car cannon / hgg / mortar / tg clip.
even very rare drops of these would give newer players a valuable trade commodity with older players. it would be worth giving some consideration to trade items. what do experienced players need that newer players could get and trade? |
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*The X Man* Posted Jun 11, 2015, 7:00 pm |
Just a couple ideas of things for Scav that already exist in DW. This also means it should be much easier and hopefully less work for Sam to implement any suggestion that get unanimous support and approval from the Scav community.
Enable Hero Points for Scav. When earned, these can be redeemed for single unit items like fuel, medicine, EPs or uncommon ammo types. This creates yet another avenue to be able obtain some of the harder to find items. I have noticed assassination missions, which I plan to do, but no transport missions. I suggest these involve hauling goods like fuel, ammo, meds, etc. and payment for a successful delivery earns you a % of items transported. Town rep goes up or down based on the success of items transported too. |
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*Brunwulf* Posted Jun 11, 2015, 7:50 pm |
What a great idea! If only we had all thought of this 2 years ago, and had petitioned SAM about it many times!!!!!!!! Sorry X MAN- you know I love you, but it's a little bit frustrating that things are only now being discussed in SCAV since the Game Manager has started Scavving!!! |
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*goat starer* Posted Jun 11, 2015, 8:46 pm |
lol.... i suppose we should be somewhat pleased that for the most part he is coming up with the same things we thiought about years ago 
just to be clear though... hero points are already active in scav.. you redeem them for town favours (random items normaly food fuel or water). if you are suggesting that that list gets increased, a choice is added and that sufficiently high quanitities of hero points can be redeemed for some ammo etc then it is a good idea. |
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*The X Man* Posted Jun 11, 2015, 10:33 pm |
Like I told you all before, Scav has been neglected be many, including myself. It has similarities of Morgan a couple of years ago where no one would go there because of the difficulty and lack of player support. You all see where Morgan is now?? My goal is to help Scav in the same manner.
I am sure I will recommend or suggest other ideas you guys have already come up with. And as Goat said, at least we are on the same page. I am just about a month into Scav and most of the game play is to replenish inventory like food, water, ammo. etc. I try to think outside that box for things that make you want to play vs things you have to do to play. Thats what will enhance the Scav experience. I am glad Goat pointed out HPs are available in Scav. Maybe I just haven't received any bounties to see them pop up?? And yes, HPs should have to be earned in quantity to have value. Unlike in normie mode where you get the one lucky kill on a nicknamed NPC and then the rare loot vault doors open and shower you with goodies. (Never liked that part). Items to be available and HP amounts you need to earn to use them should be discussed further. |
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Bolt Thrower Posted Jun 11, 2015, 11:00 pm |
Back when I was playing scav more, there were transport missions for food ant other stuff. Not sure why they are not there now.
Also, you should be able to get hero points. In SS, it is probably still only for PVP. I have gotten HP for killing merch BH. I have fuel in FL, but have never gotten any guys there yet. I believe fame is adjusted based on transport missions, not sure about rep though. |
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*goat starer* Posted Jun 11, 2015, 11:11 pm |
I have both transport and courier missions available with decent water and fuel rewards. | ||||
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*The X Man* Posted Jun 12, 2015, 12:09 am |
Do the narrative mission reward you with Scav goodies instead of the cash that some offer? Also, do you still get those nice training bumps that a few of them have too?? | ||||
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Bolt Thrower Posted Jun 12, 2015, 4:34 am |
I think the narrative missions reward you with cash, which you don't get. but they also reward you with training and goodies, which you do get. Been a while but i am pretty positive there is no substitute for cash rewards.
Kind of the same way there is no scav reward for setting a track record. I usually wince when it says 20K reward for fastest time. Those hurt. |
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*goat starer* Posted Jun 12, 2015, 11:06 am |
they give you the special rewards... so i have picked up a HFOJ, mortar and other goodies through them. The cash rewards should be substituted for appropriate things |
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*Brunwulf* Posted Jun 12, 2015, 2:20 pm |
Easily the best first mission for new Scavvers is "Racing For The Mob" Completion of this mission will bag you a nice shiny new V8 - priceless in Scav for scouter training or interceptor 'Hit n Run' vehicles (which is the safest way to solo early on when your gang isn't large/specced enough for multi car scouts) When you come to the part of the Mob mission when you have to kill an NPC in a Race- don't attempt it alone. Ask for help from another player/s- I will help if i'm on. Yes- you do get the training bumps as well Another thing useful to do as a new Scavver is take part in all the minor leagues- you not only get the prizes (remember that in Scav, a lowly Moray, Corgi, or Bullit is well worth the efoort) but the cash prize is subbed for a Scav prize, and these are MUCH better than normal race prizes. They are better and you get 10. eg: I have won 10 HMG ammo for finishing 3rd in one of the small ELMS leagues. Also- the prizes are good for trading. There is a ELMS league coming up that will get you a Napalm gun for finishing 3rd! Offer a Napalm gun to an established Scavver (ME, ME, ME!), and you will be drowning in ammo, engines, repairs etc! |
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*The X Man* Posted Jun 12, 2015, 5:47 pm |
This stage does not require any help at all, IF..... you know what track to do it on.
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*Brunwulf* Posted Jun 12, 2015, 6:05 pm |
Yes indeed, and we all know what track to do it on- but I am giving Scav advice on the thinking of new players |
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*Boonwolf* Posted Jun 13, 2015, 2:18 pm |
Just got around to racing for the mob but hit a snag whit the prize race. No pro races that match my play times for the whole 5 days. Or i didnt have 1L in the towns or cars and ganger for that matter. 1-2 races per day seems a little low.
I recall Lord Foul bringing this up in the past a few times |
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Fr33Bird Posted Jun 19, 2015, 7:45 pm |
This comment sort of goes under this thread. Anyone else notice that torque has released an updated game engine? I wonder if this could put us one step closer to a Darkwind 2 | ||||
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Master TMO Posted Jul 16, 2015, 6:34 pm |
Suggestion: Can we add a note or column to the Events page of the website for Scavs that says what the prize item is? Having to click on every single event looking for useful items is a pain. I'm lazy. Sue me.
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Master TMO Posted Jul 16, 2015, 6:38 pm |
I managed to place 2nd against a horde of Flashes in my Phoenix, simply because almost all of them blew out tires. But 1 didn't, and he easily beat me. I'm afraid that might have been my best chance at completing this mission. If you fail a mission, do you ever get a chance to do it again? |
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Bolt Thrower Posted Jul 16, 2015, 6:54 pm |
Yes. It should start showing up again, but I am not sure of the timeframe. |
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*The X Man* Posted Jul 16, 2015, 6:59 pm |
The mission should spawn again in 30 days and you meet the minimum fame and rep requirements. | ||||
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Master TMO Posted Jul 16, 2015, 7:48 pm |
Oh, good. *phew* I'd hate to fail on a ton of missions and never get a chance at them because my gang isn't ready for one stage. Do you get a chance to repeat a mission that you've completed? Or one time only? |
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*The X Man* Posted Jul 16, 2015, 9:23 pm |
You can only do missions one time. If you fail a mission, you will always have a chance to do it again until you complete it. | ||||
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Bolt Thrower Posted Jul 16, 2015, 10:08 pm |
Well, once on Scav and once on norm. |
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Diabolicboy Posted Jul 16, 2015, 10:25 pm |
I second this |
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*StCrispin* ce.services.mh@gmail.com Posted Jul 17, 2015, 10:07 pm |
been suggested numerous times. I still want this too. |
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*The X Man* Posted Jul 17, 2015, 10:34 pm |
I will bring this up at the next meeting. | ||||
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Master TMO Posted Jul 21, 2015, 6:03 pm |
Another minor piddling suggestion. If a scav scores a track record, give them 1 more item of the prize type each time. If it doesn't unbalance things, 1 for 3rd, 2 for 2nd, 3 for 1st. That might be too much though, especially if they manage to score 1st each lap. | ||||
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Bolt Thrower Posted Jul 21, 2015, 6:38 pm |
It is always fun to break an old track record as a scav and see a 20k prize knowing all you get is satisfaction. | ||||
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Taco Posted Jul 23, 2015, 7:20 am |
I don't think this needs an extra column on the event page. I would think the events table should know it is <<SCAV>> ID logged in, just as the specific event itself recognizes the login ID as a <<SCAV>>. so instead of showing a money prize it would show the <<SCAV>> prize. |