Rigged SCL Match
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*The X Man* Posted Jan 25, 2015, 4:06 am |
SCL 5 match between Me and Flame vs Juan. ( Coup D-Etat vs Hemp Growers Association 2015-01-25 03:30 2015-01-24 19:30 0 - 0 S715431 ) I say Juan because I am Juandering how the match was a draw. Our squad was set and we were in the event ready to set our vehicles in the spawn circle when the event suddenly ended.
Juan was in the event, I was in the event, and as soon as Flame joined, the event closed saying there was a truce negotiated. Our team did not negotiate anything, we were there to fight. The event closed 30 seconds later. After getting back to the main lobby, I looked for Juan to ask how the event truced, but he was no longer on. We, from what I can tell, earned one point for the match. We were in the event to fight, we did not truce and should have received 3 points for a forfeit win. If someone could enlighten me to how this happened, I would appreciate it. Otherwise, this stinks of corruption. |
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Grimm Sykes Posted Jan 25, 2015, 7:17 am |
I figured you saw everything i typed in the chat, and were ignoring me.
I said in event chat: I apologize, but I can't do this right now. I have family stuff I need to deal with. Is there a way we can end this quick without me surrendering? Then I paused to allow for time for a response. After not getting any, I selected surrender, which gave me option to truce or pay bounty, etc just like any other PVP event. I paid the bounty and left. The solution was simple and i didn't have time to sit around wait to talk about it any longer. my gang activity log shows this quite clearly, and Sam's detailed log of the event will show i said what i claimed to. S715431 2015-01-25 03:33:28 Paid $136201 to Hot Trax This is only my second time trying out SCL, I figured you would know more about how it works then I do, you're a marshal who's done SCL for years. I am learning that the scoring system doesn't seem to work very well. I've pointed this out in a few threads already this season, I don't think it's viewed as a big issue with this few of players. I haven't be able to make many events this season, my teammates never want to contribute, and most the time i end up without enough gangers of the prerequisite skill limitations. My latest hire was 144 gunnery, he doesn't qualify for DIV V. |
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*The X Man* Posted Jan 25, 2015, 7:42 am |
That explains a good portion of the issue. We were in team chat mode and that doesn't show any of your chat, hence, what seemed as ignoring.
There also would have been the option to PM me or Flame directly since we were both in the lobby 20 minutes before the match was to start. That would have given us enough time to reschedule. The part that bothers me is if you surrendered, we would have won by forfeit and should have received 3 points instead of 1. I have no problem with you not being able to do the event. I know personally how family things take priority over DW. My issue, knowing what happened, is getting shorted on points. I don't expect anything to be done to adjust scores either. I would hope that this scoring issue can be resolved for future matches. |
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*StCrispin* ce.services.mh@gmail.com Posted Jan 25, 2015, 8:21 am |
At least you got a point at all. I had a match my first season (I forget who it was against but it was an Alley member and I felt some trickery had occurred but it hadn't) and the opponent never showed up for the match and I did. He got 3 points and I got zero. never did sort out what caused that and Sam didn't reply to PMs to fix or reset it.
Not that it mattered since I did quite poorly that season. I won every match in which a glitch/bug didn't hamstring the event. Which is to say 1/3 of the events... |
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Grimm Sykes Posted Jan 25, 2015, 9:38 am |
re-read what i typed, i stated that i paid a bounty, not surrender. See the part about the amount paid?
as for chatting before the event, i had forgotten about it and was in the other room. I excused myself for a few minutes when i heard the head announcing a event was starting, and realised what it was. |
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*Bastille* Posted Jan 25, 2015, 10:38 am |
Interesting situation.
Should you be able to pay a bounty and call it a draw when you walk away? I agree with X, that this should not be possible. Pay the bounty and keep your cars, sure (well, maybe. Thats for further debate with the amounts), but you should still lose IMO. |
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*The X Man* Posted Jan 25, 2015, 10:56 am |
In a PVP intercept, this is exactly how it plays out. But in any league play, this action would be considered a forfeit. Paying a bounty is the same thing as surrendering, just a different way to say I quit. |
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Grimm Sykes Posted Jan 25, 2015, 4:35 pm |
it was my understanding that you get 1 point for having cars in the squad, 1 point for showing up, and 1 point for winning.
By my calculations, my SCL points went up only 2 points, 1 for showing and 1 for being ready, i didn't get a third point. So I didn't get any points for the forfeit/truce/bounty, or whatever word you want to use. If I did something I wasn't supposed to do, I can't tell, the game allowed me to do it. Therefore that's HOW THE GAME WORKS. Blaming Juan for everything isn't going to get the points system for SCL changed. Is it written someplace that it works differently then it currently is? Please post that link. |
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Grimm Sykes Posted Jan 25, 2015, 4:46 pm |
I just did the calculations, anyone can score a minimum of 14 points per season, just by showing up and trucing every match.
I really don't see how this is any different then avoiding a camp defense by trucing it. I'll say what I been told over and over. if you don't like it, don't play. A better suggestion would be; If you don't like it, make a better strategy to deal with it. I'm American, I've become quite good at surviving in a broken system. Often, by accident. You're suggestion that if someone shows up and doesn't play, that's cheating. I find it a bit offensive for you to throw such a asinine accusation out there. |
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Joel Autobaun Posted Jan 25, 2015, 7:29 pm |
Pretty sure you should only get 1 point for truceing out. | ||||||||||||||
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Grimm Sykes Posted Jan 25, 2015, 8:09 pm |
So post a bug report and cross your fingers. I didn't do anything to make it give me extra points. If you think it did, then it's a bug, not my problem, not my fault.
Squirrel who run up woman's leg not find nuts, your barking up the wrong tree. |
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*The X Man* Posted Jan 25, 2015, 10:51 pm |
That is how it should be. It is the same as a loss. What does not make sense is if this makes us the "winning team", we should have received 3 points, not 1. But then again Juan, why join a league that requires participation and you show up for the battle just to pay a bounty?? Throwing out the "Prior Family Commitment" card is acceptable, but you had more than enough time to contact our team before the match to try and reschedule. Also, stop riding the fence post on "How The Game Works". It gets old after while. DW is a lot more fun when you play it the way is was meant to be. |
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Ragnak Posted Jan 25, 2015, 11:29 pm |
I dont believe it makes sense in this scenario to think of you as the "winning" team. The battle never took place so really neither side won or loss. | ||||||||||||||
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Grimm Sykes Posted Jan 25, 2015, 11:30 pm |
don't put words in my mouth, especially not when what i said is on the same page. I never said i had a prior commitment. A family dispute over a sum of $1600 is hardly a prior commitment.
I also stated that i've had a problem cause my teammates won't show up to help. Really man, this is the sort of disrespect i been talking about. Saying i am saying things that I am not, when anyone who can read can see the difference, and the thing of showing you really aren't reading, your just bitching and tossing out replies, that in this case, don't really seem to apply much. Also the disrepect of people saying that twist words, make false accusations, go off half ####ed, throwing a fit if i don't get my way, etc... all of which happened in this thread, but not by me... |
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Joel Autobaun Posted Jan 28, 2015, 12:08 am |
blah blah blah.
Yeah PM sam to fix it. |
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*Boonwolf* Posted Jan 29, 2015, 4:54 am |
For SCL truce and bounty shouldn't be an option. No need to get in a hissy-fit if it's not going to affect ranking. Just saying | ||||||||||||||
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musashi_san Posted Jan 29, 2015, 5:14 am |
it should just be the same as surrender.
ahhh, miss scl, dammit. |
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Grimm Sykes Posted Jan 30, 2015, 3:04 pm |
if you and I agree not to fight, that's a draw, a truce, no one surrenders.
I really don't see how so many people are getting the two things confused. If it's a option, then I'm allowed to use it. Are you all trying to tell me that in all the years this game has been here, I'm the first person to pay a bounty to get out of a SCL match? here's an analogy... X-Man always uses a crosswalk to get across the street. I jay-walk and get across the street faster. He starts whining about how I must have cheated since I crossed the street sooner then he did. Perfect analogy, cause one's just as silly as the other to complain about. |
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*The X Man* Posted Jan 30, 2015, 9:11 pm |
This is the part why I made the rigged comment. Neither Flame or myself agreed to a bounty. Flame was the team lead. He didn't have any chance to agree to any bounty in the event because the event closed as soon as he entered. So a forced bounty is not a truce, its a surrender and a loss. The event is done, I am past this because it is what it is and it won't get adjusted, nor do I expect it to. |
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Joel Autobaun Posted Jan 31, 2015, 12:14 am |
comon man your a marshal at least ask sam to fix this busted fkin truce code(which was always bull####) | ||||||||||||||
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*StCrispin* ce.services.mh@gmail.com Posted Jan 31, 2015, 2:08 am |
+1 Even I didn't complain this much when a glitched single MMG hit penetrated 19 points of previously untouched frontal armor and destroyed 2 HMGs in an SLC match (eventually resulting in a loss) Then again, Sam didn't fix the match where I showed up and my opponent was a no show and I got Zero points and the no show guy got 3 so maybe it's not considered terribly important. I suppose if it had ended up being a deciding factor in overall placing it might have mattered enough to fix but I get the impression he is AFK.so to speak. |
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*StCrispin* ce.services.mh@gmail.com Posted Jan 31, 2015, 2:11 am |
Plus your talking SCL 5
it's not like you will drop a bracket. You are down here in the bottom of the barrel with me! Lol. |
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*The X Man* Posted Jan 31, 2015, 2:39 am |
Joel, I am still waiting for Sam to respond from things I sent him back in November. Adding more to the pile won't get them addressed any faster. Once he replies, I will add this, plus other SCL issues that I discussed with Lord Foul. If you have anything else related, let me know and I will add it to the list for Sam. (Like a time limit for SCL matches) |
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musashi_san Posted Jan 31, 2015, 4:13 am |
this is in fact bs. it's not that you used it, grimm, it's that it works in the first place. it should not. it should be equivalent to a forfeit. the key point is that the opponents did not have the opportunity to decline, nor would they have. nor would i have, frankly, especially against you 
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Grimm Sykes Posted Jan 31, 2015, 2:09 pm |
You don't get to make the choice, it's solely the choice of the person offering the bounty. You might not like it, but thats the rules. |
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Grimm Sykes Posted Jan 31, 2015, 2:13 pm |
what gets me is... the big concern about cheats is that it might sway the results of the leagues or break the game. I'm in third place in the league and i haven't fought any battles and i haven't cheated in any way. The leagues were swayed and it appears broken, without using any cheats.
This proves something, if you can allow yourself to see it... it's only a game, it doesn't matter. |
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Joel Autobaun Posted Feb 5, 2015, 5:52 am |
I see. Fend for ourselves....check. |
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*Boonwolf* Posted Feb 6, 2015, 5:46 am |
OK simple fix no more truce in SCL if code isn't fixed we know what NOT to do! | ||||||||||||||
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Joel Autobaun Posted Feb 7, 2015, 12:01 am |
I think the problem is the one side does not get an option to reject the truce. I think the simple solution is to absolutely shun the cheater and slay them whenever possible. |
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*Snipe* Posted Feb 7, 2015, 3:11 am |
How about we just shun everyone - and KILL EM ALL!!!!? | ||||||||||||||
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Grimm Sykes Posted Feb 13, 2015, 5:46 am |
really? Using a game feature, that's a cheat. You know what, screw you all, I should join next season and just do it to everybody to prove the point. you can pressure Sam to fix it or can go cry to your mommy, I don't care. as long as something is a feature of the game, it is available for any and everyone to use it, like it, or not |
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musashi_san Posted Feb 15, 2015, 5:02 pm |
here's the thing you never seem to be able to grasp, which is that just because you *can* do something it doesn't mean that you *should* do that thing. this is the core principle of ethics. | ||||||||||||||
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Grimm Sykes Posted Feb 16, 2015, 4:02 pm |
here's the thing you never seem to be able to grasp, which is that just because someone whines about something you *can* do, it doesn't mean that you *shouldn't* do that thing... but this is a game, more-so, a game where you role-play questionable ethics, such as drug use, theft, murder for hire, revenge, gossip, coveting, etc... If a GAME allows you to do something, ethics don't come in to the equation. It's a escape from reality, not a exercise in applying morals to your decision making process. I have no problem making the right moral decision, but have you considered maybe I don't want to roleplay someone with morals. What about the ethics of confronting someone personally, instead of whining to an authority or a crowd of people who weren't even involved? Wheres your core ethical principles? Oh yeah... you weren't involved either. Wheres your ethics of keeping your nose out of things which don't even involve you? If your going to pull the ethics card, your going to have to take a long look in the mirror. Get a grip and look at the big picture. how did any of this even affect the overall outcome of anything? ALLAH HU AKBAR |
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musashi_san Posted Feb 16, 2015, 6:38 pm |
actually i rarely comment on this kind of inane crap. this one just hit a chord because it's scl, which i love, and fair play and honest competition seem central to it, at least to me.
true enough, generally. but scl seems, and again this is just my opinion, like more of a real sport between humans, most of whom i expect to be reasonable, honest, and honorable people.
that's fine, it just seemed to me like you weren't admitting that, even to yourself. as long as you're comfortable with being known as someone who bends the rules when he can find a loophole, without regard to any standards of right and wrong, that's fine. it's the argument that since the game allows it, it must be ok that i found fault with. or, if i have in some way misunderstood your position or have mis-characterized your stance on this, then i apologize.
getting a community consensus on a question of fairness doesn't seem wrong.
the actual incident i could care less about, it's the overall concept as it relates to scl in general that does actually concern me. and it does. this is the one league i used to actually do, and hope to again.
again, don't really care about the actual incident. i'm actually not even sure this affected the standing or whatever. that's not the point.
this might be taking the whole “While there is a lower class I am in it; while there is a criminal element I am of it; while there is a soul in prison, I am not free” thing, which seems very you, and usually in a good way, a bit too far. i guess i'd have to check with goat to see if using a rallying cry frequently seen in protests against freedom of expression, as a way to assert freedom of expression, actually counts as irony.
or maybe i misunderstand you again. |
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Grimm Sykes Posted Feb 16, 2015, 7:39 pm |
yeah, you have.
Sam said in another thread that he isn't seeing it worth his time to continue to fix bugs, and this thing i did wasn't a dishonorable thing. I tried to talk to them and they wouldn't respond. You really should read all of a topic before you reply cause this was already explained in detail on page 1. I also find it impossible to believe this is the first time this has ever happened in what? 9 years? if it can be done it's allowed? try playing a computer game of checkers, will it let you move pieces sideways? no it won't because that would be against the rules that the game was written to follow. This game has no listed rules, only term of service. and the way things interact in the game is arbitrary. A player has to experiment and poke around to figure it all out. If they discover a loophole or the ability to do something that shouldn't be able to be done, that's not their fault. thats the responsibility of the developers. The user may be required to report it, but when reports go un-addressed and un-responded to for years, whats one to think? The common sense response is that since no one cares, it's not a issue. A bunch of players whining may seem like someone cares, but they are powerless to make changes so it's all for nill and the last line was a jab, because this whole thread is assinine My whole point is that I didn't do anything dishonorable or wrong. Pointing the finger at me serves no good, it only confuses the issue that things need fixed, by making it look like i'm trying to break the game. It's already broken, and that's not my fault or my problem. I'm taking a attitude to this because fingers are pointing at me when i did nothing wrong, and if that's the disrespect i'm gonna receive, then I'm going to dish it right back out. |
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*SmokeyKilla* Posted Feb 17, 2015, 3:13 am |
Grimm u are using the forfeit for personal gain......you gain points and the opposing team lose points that they would have gained had u not shown up. Logging into the game to just forfiet is childish and you are just doing it cause you can.......it disrupts gameplay and the SCL leaderboards, and as quoted above it is against the game rules so stop doing it. |
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Grimm Sykes Posted Feb 17, 2015, 4:15 am |
Smokey, i'll repeat what I said to Musashi, read the whole thread. It was never my goal to sway points one way or another. In fact your whole response ignores the description of what happened, that was put forth by me or by X-man. How can something be publicly discussed, when it seems no one has the attention span to even follow whats actually going on?
The only thing I was trying to gain was the ability to deal with a family situation that came up and was more important then whining gamers. |
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Grimm Sykes Posted Feb 17, 2015, 4:22 am |
If you wanna make up lies accusing me of things I'm not doing, remember, I can treat you the same exact way.
How's that for morals? |
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musashi_san Posted Feb 18, 2015, 12:35 am |
longer response when i have more time, but the crux of it is that scl is the one thing i do. over 2 years of it, over a year in the top division. and in my experience, people who screwed up and have a conflict at the scheduled time that they did not deal with in advance, either unset their squad, or don't show up, or show up and resign all cars. all of which results in essentially a loss/forfeit. this is the right thing to do. i've never had someone show up and bounty out, and i know you know the difference. | ||||||||||||||
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Grimm Sykes Posted Feb 18, 2015, 2:02 am |
I had no idea there was a difference in the results, and frankly i don't care anymore if there is or not | ||||||||||||||
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HexGrid Posted Apr 23, 2016, 3:33 am |
While we are spewing on cheap tactics.
Maybe the run to town and escaping can be removed and the 500M range bull tactic also. lolz. |
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*The X Man* Posted Apr 23, 2016, 5:08 am |
If you weren't so slow and running into buildings, you wouldn't have been left behind V <--- poke here! 
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