2014: my latest thoughts for DW2
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*sam* Posted Oct 9, 2014, 11:33 am |
As you probably know, I have wanted to do some kind of DW2 for some time. Several core ideas have buzzed around for the last 2 or 3 years but none have progressed very far. This is my latest thinking on it all... comments/opinions welcome.
The engine I have chosen: Unity. I have been tinkering around with it for some time and it definitely seems like the right one. Excellent networking, very good graphics capabilities, and an awesome asset store which is exactly what a small development team needs. The platforms I have chosen: PC and Mac. Forget smartphones and their appstores.. the days of the appstore gold-rush are gone, and there's increasingly a lack of opportunity for small teams to have any impact without massive marketing. There is also a fundamental difference in demographic: many smartphone players want only casual games (or indeed, don't even care if the app they're using is a game.. they are happy to have any app that passes the time).. whereas PC/Mac gamers who use Steam etc. are real 'core' gamers who search for games, share and discuss them, and care about details.. it is much more feasible to achieve a niche audience here. There are fundamental decisions to be made in terms of the core game. It could be a turn-based or real-time; it could be singleplayer or multiplayer; it could be a sandbox-style game similar to DW1; it could be a story-driven RPG; it could be a game focusing on league play and the deathsports side of things. Any of these could be awesome, and having spoken to quite a few of you about this I know that you'll all have different opinions on the best approach to go for. So here's my current thoughts on it...... - Make it a real-time multiplayer game, packaged initially as a stand-alone product containing a story-driven single-player campaign and a multiplayer (LAN-play) PvE campaign. But keep it as hardcore as possible rather than turning it into an arcade game: so, that includes armour per-side, characters who die rather than re-spawn, cars that get wrecked rather than re-spawn. Set in Evan, of course. - a scenario editor similar to DW:Tactical should be included (and a mechanism to share scenarios online). Player-generated content is a very powerful thing. - As well as campaigns, it could include a LAN-play league system for arena combats/deathraces with friends and NPCs - Internet-play, public servers and online leagues could follow as an extra add-on. This would probably have to use a subscription or in-app-purchase payment model. |
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*Wolfsbane* Posted Oct 9, 2014, 11:47 am |
Unity as the engine is the correct choice. If you want a hand with anything once you get going then let me know, I've been using it for years. It also means you can make a build people can play in a web browser, which is great for getting people to actually try your demo (download and install is a much bigger barrier these days).
I'm not going to comment too much on the real time aspect as I'm sure there will be plenty of other people eager to do that, but I'll just say that if I can't have the darkwind 2 I really want, an new Interstate 76 is a very nice consolation prize 
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*sam* Posted Oct 9, 2014, 11:56 am |
Yeah, that's a good analogy. And of course I know the players here love turn-based.. obviously.. as do I. It's a critical decision, and I know that turn-based is a large part of what makes DW unique. But also, a very large number of players are turned off totally by turn-based. The parameters are different, but the potential for success may be higher using real-time, and it can *still* be an awesome game. |
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JS Posted Oct 9, 2014, 12:13 pm |
Yup, I want little to do with real time, but I'm a minority in the gaming world, and you're more likely to get broader appeal with real time. It's a shame. Worrying about precise movements on the key board is not my thing any more. |
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Racing Robbie Posted Oct 9, 2014, 12:19 pm |
My initial thoughts/feelings
Not the biggest fame of RTS by I would keep playing if some the elements that makes DW unique could be kept there. - The ability to design cars, - the freedom to be want you want in the game, - the open ended nature of the game and that you can keep reinventing your gang and do different things - permanent death, equipment destroyed etc Keeping the player added content would be great as well – this is one side that I love and as you may of noticed I do like to get involved with as well. |
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*sam* Posted Oct 9, 2014, 12:30 pm |
I wouldn't classify this idea as an RTS. To me, an RTS means synchronising lots of moving pieces, and this means that there can't be any proper car physics, crashing etc. What I'm talking about is real-time but with accurate physics. So you'd only control one car, as part of a team which included your friends and/or NPCs. |
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Racing Robbie Posted Oct 9, 2014, 12:56 pm |
OK sorry misunderstood - I can see that and sounds better to me, so we are perhaps talking the combat being more tactical than strategy here
By this I mean you are handling just your part in the combat, rather than the overall squad |
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*SmokeyKilla* Posted Oct 9, 2014, 1:22 pm |
great ideas.........except real time .......only one car?, lose a lot of the strategy,( im assuming it will be similar to twisted metal) or the hundreds of other car shoot em ups. Grand theft auto?
Sam you already said it
otherwise I believe it will just be a car shoot em up with a mix of rpg elements thrown in, i believe you could make the town events real time, and scouts/travels turnbased and appeal to everyone........sorta musclecar online/darkwind hybrid 
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*goat starer* Posted Oct 9, 2014, 1:35 pm |
i like it... I like only one car as well. I think the muscle car scouts in somerset provide a great model for this and coordination of tactics with other players is one of the joys of the game.
Playing one car will encourage co-op play. I really don't think you can split game mechanics as smokey suggests... that would make for a chaotic gaming experience... but i guess you could still run DW1 in parallel. Agree with Rob re customisation. cars that are a basic chassis frame and you build up with looted or traded parts. I would like to see this done in much more detail with better or worse transmissions, engines, steering, suspension etc being available (customisable for chrome equiv?). Would like to see more ability to change the appearance of your vehicle... armour plates that add to the model, different gun mounts... make the building of a unique car a central part of the game. |
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PvtParty Posted Oct 9, 2014, 2:18 pm |
If it's one car per person, are we talking top-down view, or "through the windshield" ?
Some way to integrate the turn-based gang mechanic of DW1 with this 1-car real-time would be cool. Maybe switch into real-time for some events, but keep others as turn-based. So, where it's a single car race, for example, you play it real-time, but if players want to take out a squad into the wilderness, they could have the option of setting up a real-time squad, and co-op'ing with other gamers, or use several of their own cars in turn-based mode (ie, as now). |
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Bill Butcher Cutting Posted Oct 9, 2014, 2:48 pm |
Here's a few things I would like to see in DW2:
- the choice between RTS and TB decided by the players at combat launch (if given the choice, I will always pick TB ). Can this be achieved through an adjustable in-game slow motion/pause mechanism? - the ability to field multiple cars - a single client for character/gang/vehicle/squad/town/combat management with the ability to manage everything but combat from any browser. - no lag between squad management and combat - ability to manage components directly without going through a vehicle (can this be done now and I'm just missing it?) - enhanced ped environment (characters from several gangs going on a 'dungeon' crawl; think a toned down old-school wasteland or multiplayer fallout environment) - expanded world - balanced specs - no respawn whatsoever - no pay to win I'm sure there's more but this is what came to mind at the moment. |
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Hangfire Posted Oct 9, 2014, 3:15 pm |
I could get behind a top-down version of I76 with a complicated (in a good way) back end. I would not like this as much as a DW2 that is essentially DW1 with a new engine and a new coat of paint (I love me some turn based), but I can understand why the game would need to be made to fit the market. Some things I /think/ I would like to see:
1- Keep and expand on all the customization aspects, especially the skins. 2- Shrink the gangs down to smaller numbers, but with more customization for each ganger. Perhaps in addition to stats, gangers would have a skill tree (or trees) that would replace the special system in DW1. 3- Variable sized LOF cones for different weapons to add more variety. This would also allow for turrets and pintel mounted guns. 4- More variety in mission types. 5- More variety in permanent damage. I would love to see weapons and cars develop quirks due to damage, especially if the game is still set in the post-apocalypse setting. Something more than just gun has a % chance to jam or car takes damage easier. I want things like... engine sputters between 40-50 making acceleration slower in that range. Gun overheats if fired for more than 4-5 rounds in a row. Things like that to give cars and weapons more personality. 6- Deformable terrain would be cool. 7- More things for peds to do... Like moving boarding combat and the ability to use hand guns while in vehicles. I disagree with the concept of trying to do both turn based and real time in a single game. Do one or the other, not both. The closest I think you would want to get to that would be realtime pauseable, but I am not sure how well that would work within a multiplayer game. |
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Tallus Posted Oct 9, 2014, 3:26 pm |
My 6 year old son doesn't like the turn based: he gets annoyed by all the 'stops.'
Conversely, I love it, in great part because it allows for multicar and convoy combat. To be frank, I'm violently uninterested in a real-time sim: Carmaggedon fits that bill perfectly well. I remember enjoying I-76 for a while, but ended up annoyed by the FPS aspect and the A/I's quirks. In DW I think timed turns are a brilliant addition. Running replays in real time would be cool, and would also allow for Youtube crowd-promotions. For my part, I think more can be done with the things that make Darkwind unique -- vis. the A/I, warts and all, is a good deal better than most. A better U/I -- including multimedia cueing, better graphics, and a better developed world.... Specifically, I'd localize Evan -- one of the neat things about the Fallout games was the creepy familiarity of the setting, a real -- but twisted -- geographical location would be much more compelling. e.g. what would the I-80/580 interchange (right before the bay bridge to San Francisco) look like post apocalypse? And how can you not localize a Car Wars game to California? Oh... and just to make life rougher for our gangers, and to harken back to Car Wars: 'Gibs:' flying tyres, debris from cars that get blasted, more road hazards. |
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Grimm Sykes Posted Oct 9, 2014, 3:52 pm |
Ideas sound good Sam. I'm glad to hear you chose Unity.
I hope darkwind 2 will be turn based, like darkwind but better graphics, better physics, and easier for new players to understand. But most of all I hope it remains turn based. There's already real time car combat games out there. The game NFS Rivals features low levels of combat, then there's 2 Gas Guzzlers games and the new Sega Mad Max game coming next year. Those are just some of the current ones. A large part of the appeal of darkwind is using a group of cars. The only way that could be accomplished with real time would be if you assign a behavior type to a car and let the AI take over, and if the AI is like the one we have now that will be discouraging for the player. What I would love to see in any car game is for it to use GPS maps, and replace houses with ruins based on the GPS data. This way maps wouldn't be made, real maps could be filtered to add ruins to replace houses on the fly. areas of high traffic density could have wrecks of cars sitting in the middle of the road. All map data could be generated on the fly like this and wouldn't require you to actually create maps. |
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Tallus Posted Oct 9, 2014, 4:08 pm |
The idea of GPS-based maps is cool... I guess the problem is trying figure out how to generate the A/I scripts for them. |
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ZomBPir8Ninja Posted Oct 9, 2014, 4:30 pm |
What about the Baldur's Gate/Dragon Age style of real time with pausing?
A single car race or scout? Real time. Multiple car convoy? They would use AI, but you could hit space to pause and give direction. You can flip between the cars at will and take manual control over a specific one. If you want to focus fire, for example, hit space to pause, set every car's target, go back to the one you want control and unpause. Best of both worlds. Icing on the cake would also be player customized AI. Write your own scripts to handle melee, sniper, escape situations. |
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*The X Man* Posted Oct 9, 2014, 5:04 pm |
This sounds like it should be a lot like a WoW version of Darkwind. Realtime, persistent with perma death or at least perma injury. Perma death is the one rare concept that completely changes the way someone will play the game. Meaning choices will have a huge impact on how your game and character unfolds. Player interaction with a deeper storyline that pulls you in to your addiction. | ||||||||
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Bill Butcher Cutting Posted Oct 9, 2014, 6:12 pm |
Here's more for the buffet of ideas: - ability to reload completely from the loot screen - have vehicle inventories be accurate in loot screen - be able to view cargo space of each vehicle in combat client (know which vehicle have space for passengers during a loot car shuffle) - in solo scouts, a single transaction to load all loot to the player's temporary area during the loot phase - button in the loot screen to automatically load all of most valuable loot, in cars you have predesignated, according to the sell value of the town scouted from. The player can then review what's left. Saves time. - save which gun, in a particular vehicle, a ganger normally uses - less 100% cars and components. Equipment shouldn't be brand new but reused and repaired until unusable. Anything 'manufactured' should basically be rescavenged parts brought together at less than 100%. Anything at 100% should be a treasure in itself. |
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*viKKing* Posted Oct 9, 2014, 8:20 pm |
Definitively no real time. Turn based game was the call to me.
More customization? obviously, and anything. Size limit on cars? I say yes but not only one at a time. Two is better and no more than 4 at once for a single player. We need to encourage player coop. I would vote for a different world, sticking to the real one it may helps people playing together, at least on the geography point of view. A single developper, even with some help can't spend time on rebuilding existing cities. |
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*Longo* Posted Oct 9, 2014, 9:20 pm |
So many ideas here.
I like turn based. Real time would be a turn off to me. My once lightning reflexes now sit backstage to most 11 years olds, and I have no interest in these types of games. I usually only scout one car, but like to take a few on occasion. I like co-op play, but I do not want to be forced to do it or even encouraged to. When I feel like being social, I am. But sometimes on a rainy day, I just like to scout by myself and chat occasionally thru the lobby. All I got for now. |
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*Bastille* Posted Oct 10, 2014, 7:38 am |
I just think turn based is the game. | ||||||||
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*goat starer* Posted Oct 10, 2014, 9:55 am |
turn based is THIS game... if all Sam was looking to do was re-skin DW1 then I would agree with you. But that can't be what it is about. We know the limited appeal of turn based. We know the fanatical devotion it creates in a small number of players. most of us love it. but Sam is talking about taking a sabbatical, working on a new game that occupies the same world and shares features. If that were me I would be rather keen to make it a) a commercial success on a scale rather larger than DW1 and b) new and interesting to develop. Im not sure a) can be done with a turn based game. b) only sam can comment on. |
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*StCrispin* ce.services.mh@gmail.com Posted Oct 10, 2014, 10:24 am |
I mostly want to abstain from DW2 discussion as I am completely against Real Time. and also completely against 1 car only.
However, from the perspective of appealing to a broader audience, that's probably the way to go (Unfortunately). So any discussion from me, im afraid, would be little more than saying that I understand the reasons to do a Real Time single car game, but that I dislike the idea and would not play it for any reason other than curiosity. |
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*Bastille* Posted Oct 10, 2014, 10:33 am |
I think with unity you could have it turn based, add some b) and still make a)
Im not sure how popular Space Hulk and Blood Bowl are, or what is it, x.com? Theres plenty of love for turn based games I would think. Mad Max is coming out next year. Thats big competition, massive hype and budget. Thats going to grab all the action fans. Real time (MMO or not) is going to be lumped in with that. Staying true to what the game is. Play to its strengths. Its uniqueness, its depth. (we all know CW, this is the game every CW player has ever wanted. Its not done elsewhere) hmmmm....Maybe thats something.... Make DW - future tech. What if the pocky clypse never happened? What if whats his face decided to strap an MG on the front of his car after all and cruise the highways looking for combat and thats how the death sports started. Steve might not like us stealing that idea but to be in that shiny world, with all the different toys that entails, could be fun. And you wouldn't be able to bag us laser users any more and we could have targetting lasers for our rockets and HiRes SWC for our VMGs.
I would think taking this game and making every bit of it better, up to date, would be the best way of doing it. - New graphics, new assets - Super particle effects. - Fully integrated economy - Fully integrated faction system - Stream line everything. The roots are there, just need a new cutting. 
There is money to be had in this idea. Its on the verge of it now at the steam launch even though the game is near 10 years old and basically a one man band. Thats pretty friggin cool right there. It didn't grab 100s of new players, but did find 20 - 40 or so new devotees. |
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*sam* Posted Oct 10, 2014, 10:59 am |
I know what you're saying Bast!
I did have some strong ideas for turn-based, which is what was underlying my previous thinking (from earlier this year) |
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*goat starer* Posted Oct 10, 2014, 11:22 am |
some groovy ideas in here... Death-racing born of post modern ennui an alternative Evan without the solar apocalypse I think the thing you are missing from your list is speed of play. This game does not match the visceral need for immediate gratification that others do... take a look at Warthunder. There are 'realistic' missions that take ages and short crazy dogfights. There are Darkwind numbers of players on the long haul events and tens of thousands of players on the short events. We are kidding ourselves if we think turn based can really do this. to be clear.... i might not play a non turn based game... im not looking for one and i don't need one (a faster game would be good but that is by the by). |
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*Bastille* Posted Oct 10, 2014, 11:53 am |
yeah, fair call. | ||||||||
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*viKKing* Posted Oct 10, 2014, 12:39 pm |
We can make turn based game very challenging. Only allowing 5 secs per vehicle to perform actions, for example. | ||||||||
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*Bastille* Posted Oct 10, 2014, 12:55 pm |
If you could have real time and lock target buttons for selected weapon if target in arc, view out gun port while targetting. weapon autofires in arc.... Starting to get crazy on the keys though. eg Steer while looking right and tabbing through targets. Hot key for each weapon port perhaps. then just hit the corresponding key to change targets on that port.
Can control 1 car at a time in your squad, AI controls the rest while you are piloting 1. encourage team play. |
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JS Posted Oct 10, 2014, 2:23 pm |
This is essentially where I stand. |
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*goat starer* Posted Oct 10, 2014, 2:25 pm |
can you imagine the kerfuffle whenthe AI controlling your other cars kills all your characters? |
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Tallus Posted Oct 10, 2014, 7:31 pm |
One thing I would be cautious about is the idea that a game must 'appeal to a broader audience' to be successful -- especially for a small-shop, indie game: the issue is, rather, to make the economics of a niche market work: get a big enough audience of people willing to pay enough, and let things grow organically from there.
Also, I'd try to leverage linkages with other turn based systems and shops: Battlefront.com, ageod.com, matrix/Slitherine, and/or exodus wars' recent beta, or shenandoah software. (not to mention vassalengine.org) There is a fairly small but dedicated fan-base that buys turn-based computer games... and, notably, they tend to stick with the systems far longer than e.g. activision's fan base. |
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Bill Butcher Cutting Posted Oct 10, 2014, 8:03 pm |
I'm here because I was looking for a turn-based strategic game. When I found that Sam had created a game inspired by car wars, which I have played since it came out, it was icing on the cake.
Sam, forget DW2. Improve DW1 and build an Ogre inspired game! 
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*StCrispin* ce.services.mh@gmail.com Posted Oct 10, 2014, 9:35 pm |
Mmmmm. Ogre. I modified Ogre and made a "Risk-Like" version where you could buy troops including Ogres and take over the world vs other players. Loved Ogre.
Sam, what is the GOAL of going real-time? Is it because you want to appeal to a broader audience? Try out a different Market sector? Draw in a younger demographic? That's important to know before I could give any meaningful input beyond "I want this type of game" opinions. |
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*viKKing* Posted Oct 10, 2014, 9:45 pm |
Sticking with DW1 means as well getting stuck with ol' Torque Engine limitations. Improving things also needs people to comply with changes and not complain about modifications. Switching to a new game would bring more changes, fixes on broken features and new features as well. I just found I was about to propose this exact kind of game roadwar 2000 as DW2. BTW: do we really need 3D graphics? wouldn't 2D be enough if it offers a larger world to explore and play with? |
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*sam* Posted Oct 11, 2014, 1:12 pm |
Possibly all of these reasons, Crispin. Fundamentally I love making games, and I think that a real time car combat game is worth exploring. I can see the argument for remaining turn based, but I can equally see the drawbacks. Yes, the game will be different to DW1 if it's realtime. But that doesn't mean it can't be awesome too. I think it's a fallacy to say that going real time automatically puts me into an unwinnable competition with big game dev companies. There are loads of successful realtime indie games. What matters is being *original* and this doesn't have to mean turn based. What I have in mind is a team based strategic action game. Initially focused on campaign play and on player-hosted leagues. Not an MMO and not an RTS. One car per player, driving is physically realistic and cars get damaged, characters get injured and killed. To explain campaign play a bit: I mean in the style of Wing Commander or Combat Flight Simulator: I.e. a story to hang the action set-pieces on. To include 'official' campaigns and also ones created and shared by players |
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PolyesterViking Posted Oct 12, 2014, 3:03 am |
That sounds a lot like what Motorgun was going for before it fell apart. I can certainly get behind someone who has real respect for this genre going through with that idea, but Darkwind has shown me how interesting a mashup of car combat and turn-based strategy can be. I haven't played Darkwind for very long and I'm not as seasoned of a gamer as some (most) people here, but I can tell you I'd be disappointed if DW2 became something completely different before avenues that seem to have been skipped over are explored. I feel the ambitions of Darkwind have overstepped a critical point in the mingling of the genres in that being an MMO essentially puts a niche within a niche. Most of the problems I have with Darkwind are related to the fact that it's online and you can't breathe without being reminded you’re part of a large, complicated beast. Where I'm going with all this is I think a compacted, dense iteration of the franchise, based mainly on the combat system being utilized by a single player, would be an unfortunate idea to skip over. My dream would be to see DW2 as a single player mashup of XCOM, for the brutality and combat system, and Diablo or Torchlight, for the randomized loot and exploration (granted, the XCOM bits are already part of DW, really). Just for the hell of kicking and screaming, I’m going to make the argument that this could potentially gain more notoriety than DW, as the concepts I just mentioned are more familiar to a larger audience and may have the chance of interesting more people without overwhelming them instantly. |
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Grimm Sykes Posted Oct 12, 2014, 2:05 pm |
If your going real time, why not something like the Wargame: series?
http://www.wargame-rd.com/en/game-ab.html but we make our own cars and there's no aircraft. |
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*StCrispin* ce.services.mh@gmail.com Posted Oct 12, 2014, 7:11 pm |
I hate that type of game too. Im a more open world" type player. One of my biggest gripes about most games is the "Linked Set-Piece Missions" type campaign such as you find in Elven (turn bases favtasy wargame like Heroes of Might and Magic), or Baldurs Gate, Shadowrun Returns, Command & Conquer, Star Wars X-Wing, and a slew of others. Wing Commander was nice because if you lost it didn't make you refight the mission, it branced off onto the Loser-Tree but I still hated the Set-Piece nature of the missions. So if you ARE leaning towards linked Set-Piece missions PLEASE do a Branching Tree method where the player doesn't run into a "Replay Mission?" situation. There should be multiple approaches to lead to whatever result is expected to progress or even a branch where you fail to achieve the goals while still moving the story to its conclusion in some logical way. Maybe you failed to kill some boss character, and later this causes you immense harm but he dies anyway as part of the story. |
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*StCrispin* ce.services.mh@gmail.com Posted Oct 12, 2014, 7:13 pm |
I have all of these. Pretty sweet but a little too fast paced for me to control my entire force at the same time. I still consider it one of my favorites but really wish it was turn based like Steel Panthers. (SP: WAW sucks so don't suggest it. I also have SP: WWII and SP: MBT which are okay but nothing compared to the original SP III: Brigade Command) |
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Iron Wraith Posted Oct 13, 2014, 8:51 am |
Real-time?
In order to do all the things you should be doing, won't it force you to blob them up into generalised controls that mean all the detail is lost. How will it work with say a driver and gunner combo? I'll have to split my attention between the two when in reality you get twice the activity with two participants. This runs the risk of ending up like Zombie Driver. Don't get me wrong, I quite like Zombie Driver, or there is a Mexican themed combat driving game, but I haven't played either nearly as much as DW (and since I can't even remember the name of the Mexican themed one...). |
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*Urban Decay* Posted Oct 13, 2014, 9:04 am |
Real time always turns me off of RPG's and strategy, sad that so many people can't wait more then half a second to see themselves cause something to occur. Turn based strategy is always the best, when you make it real time you either dumb everything down too much, or force yourself to remember a ludicrous number of macro's until you have to break your keyboard like a star craft champion to play properly.
Real time games can be fun, but the world needs to remember turn based gaming is a legitimate thing. Otherwise you end up turning into.... 
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Racing Robbie Posted Oct 13, 2014, 10:31 am |
I think perhaps calling it DW2 is confusing people
If I read this right it’s going to be a completely new game, with a few tie-ins with DW1. Based on a story line and featuring real time events controlling a single car. This type has worked a solo play type of game previously – Wing Commander was fun for a while, and I loved X-Wing for a long time. The success of this - I think – will be how you tie it together so that one player actions can affect the whole world and has knock on effects on other players. So if someone completes a mission where you had to kill a gang leader – this affects that whole gang, changes the dynamic of the world and that mission is pulled completely & another starts up have to kill a different gang leader. One of the greatest strengths of DW1 is the freedom that players have to be what they want – like Joel trying to win every league/town event that he can as head of the DRM . So if possible make it so that players have choice as to what they want to be, like a good guys/bad guys, town racers or trader. This might make having a structure mission path too unworkable. Could go down the route that on top of the story line missions, the system is set up to generate random missions – like if you are a bounty hunter you pull a mission where you have to go this place and kill X&Y gangers. What would be cool if you could make X&Y below to another player’s gang and introduce PvP that way
Then for tougher missions set it up that a number of players have to work together in the event. As a side thought and don’t know if this is where you want to head but….. perhaps an element of gang management could be introduced via a website, a bit like DW1 where gangs could trade, repair/build cars and such like via a website. This could include elements that affect the world again, like paying for hits on gangs Oh eck – looks like I’m rewriting DW1 here 
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Iron Wraith Posted Oct 13, 2014, 12:48 pm |
Fundamentally driving a car (even without combat) is a multi-tasking activity using foot pedals, steering wheels, and other hand operated controls that are within easy reach of the steering wheel (or are supposed to be for setting up prior to driving - no changing CDs when the car is in motion naughty!)
The keyboard/mouse interface can handle a fraction of that in real time. If I am now having to buy special hardware to stand a chance of basic vehicle control, I am not that interested (and I suspect that writing support for the multi-various devices would complicate the development). In turn based, I can spend a few seconds searching for the right key to activate my oil dropper. In a real combat car it would be on the dash in easy reach. If my turning is dome by hey them I have to take my fingers off the turn controls to activate a gun, in a real design I would be able to keep at least one hand on. It is no coincidence that real single operator combat vehicles (i.e. fighters and some attack copters) have joysticks. Sadly driving a car with a joystick feels aesthetically wrong. Put away the real-time, walk away from the real-time. |
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Iron Wraith Posted Oct 13, 2014, 1:00 pm |
An earlier poster suggested a half-real time half turn based game.
Mechanisms to achieve this needn't be clunky. Max Payne had bullet-time. Space Hulk had a mechnaism where freeze-game planning time was built up as you progressed in real time. That meant most of the time you were thinking on your feet (for example when walking down a corridor) to try to earn some freeze time so you could still pause the game for a limited time to issue turn based commands (such as sending firing orders). It also allowed control of multiple actors via their camera displays (shown at the top of your main HUD). Wasteland 2 is normally in real-time but steps to turn based for combat. I think it is Unity based. It was also crowdfunded for Millions. |
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*goat starer* Posted Oct 13, 2014, 1:35 pm |
in a sense final fantasy 7 did a swap to turn based for combat... RT for exploring. i don't think it is a very comfortable thing for the most part though. I think Rob is right. Calling it DW2 drives expectation among current players. I'm not sure why we would think Sam wants to make another game just for us though. I mean... he loves us like a benevolent God but all good gods are about converting the non believers rather than just bestowing boons on the faithful. |
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Racing Robbie Posted Oct 13, 2014, 2:36 pm |
Hey here’s an idea…….
DARKWIND 2 – INTO THE RUINS……………… Sorry – but had to be done 
(Racing Robbie now runs away and finds a big dark hole to hide in) |
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*StCrispin* ce.services.mh@gmail.com Posted Oct 14, 2014, 1:03 am |
Hate to say it but it's hard to get input on making a real time game from a bunch of guys who hate real time games and love turn base.
Might be better to consider it as a WoW-Like MORPG (or as u mentions last year, a LOL-Like competitive game) rather than DW2 per se |
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Iron Wraith Posted Oct 14, 2014, 7:45 am |
Who said I hate real-time games? I like flight sims, 3rd person shootem-ups, top-down driving games etc.
I play most games as real-time as possible (I even turn around most travels here as quick as the system will allow). I just don't think complex games that aspire to realism can be real-time unless the controls can be accessed in an appropriate time frame. For a gun shooting car game I think that is a big ask. If the game is to be anything more than knee-jerk panic reaction in an impossibly cluttered control space then it needs some turn-based elements (or simple controls and/or simple environment - which moves it away from Sams other objectives). As an example, real-time 3rd person shootem-ups: Generally you only have a single weapon that you control (with some mechanism to cycle through them). Movement is generally via the WASD keys (which could be mapped to accelerator, brakes and steering. Most importantly however you only have 1 view. If the car is to have weapons on any other facing than front, you will also need other views. You could fudge all this up with limited view cameras inset into the dashboard. You could force the car to be single seat, front gun muscle car, but that limits possibilities (and has been done before). You could have remote gun stations where the AI just fires at whatever enemy crosses it's path (or shoots at the best target) and that might allow expansion into multi gunner vehicles. The main problem though is that my vision is stereoscopic, when I drive I get a 3d world view and can judge positional information far better than I can in a 2D screen. Realistic driving physics will require enough information to be able to process it in real-time if the game is to be playable. Maybe Sam has plans for a 3d game? If it is real-time it also needs to be down to my driving skill, not the skill of the character. As long as I can upgrade the car in a realistic way (rather than by driving over power-ups - like some games), have a level of persistence so my actions have long term consequences (though I would prefer to be able to save the game at any point rather than be force to play an encounter out right then), and have it intuitive, playable and largely bug free, I will be happy. Real-time or Turn-based makes no odds. |
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Bill Butcher Cutting Posted Oct 16, 2014, 2:56 am |
Here's another one to add to the top of the DW2 DW1 improvement wishlist: - ability to move fuel between vehicles in a squad before splitting. - drag and drop functionality for all objects with review and finalization buttons. |
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*Bastille* Posted Oct 16, 2014, 5:05 am |
Right, its been decided! 
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Grimm Sykes Posted Oct 28, 2014, 12:22 am |
what about real time, but you can flip a switch and it starts doing it turn based. | ||||||||
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Ryslock Posted Nov 8, 2014, 1:21 pm |
Probably too much work to create Grimm and it would probably result in a game with two sets of mechanics and playstyles - Bloodbowl tried to incorporate this idea with their Blitz mode in pretty simple d6 mechanics and a lot of it just crippled the original gameplay. 
Some games almost pull it off, like the post-TotD X-Com games - but they were real-time based with a good pausing system rather than turn based to start with. Unsure how much you follow other mmos *sam*, but auto assault did more-or-less what you propose, with a far more limited character/skill system than DW has though. It was mechanically excellent, open-world and had a slick UI, just limited in how you could develop your car and had one-car control. It was closed down mostly because it was managed by NCSoft (don't ask or I will rant on about their idiocity for ages, I still miss AA and Tabula Rasa). There's also at least two existing games on Steam currently that are very similar gameplay wise to what you propose, with current-gen graphics. Stumbled into them while looking for Darkwind stuff, ironically. Ultimately though, I'll stick to the online DW - single player only games need to be highly polished, interesting or praised to persuade me to even look at them. DW2 might manage this - however until there's a beta, demo or at least roadmap impossible to say. Odds are I'll still be on DW even after DW2 is either mastered or boring though. |
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Alocalypse Posted Nov 13, 2014, 4:07 am |
I think focusing on single player and a campaign mode doesn't really play to your strenghts (being a lone coder as opposed to content creation). But I'd be interested in a post-apocalyptic roguelike co-op* vehicular combat game (ok you would have my interest at two of those OR post-apocalyptic anything), more Privateer than Wing Commander (I think, I've only played Privateer). Harsh and unforgiving is what players expect from roguelike games - while having mechanics like that in a campaign that uses predesigned encounters is just frustrating (unless they're very well designed and have multiple approaches from stealth to misdirection to all out assault). Relying on competitive multiplayer also has the risk of having the game just die out because there's no one to play with. I'm skeptical that AI controlled surrogates would work in a real-time game - DW1 feels like an exception in this case because it has a the persistent gameworld tied to the racing and because turn based racing/combat works differently on some level (but I can't articulate why exactly, maybe it's because it can be seen as more of a spectator sport).
If it includes single player or player hosted servers then I'd like to see just overall modding support (adding new assets and code) over just gui tools or a level editor. Best examples for that working really well on Unity would be Kerbal Space Program and possibly Rimworld. I've been messing around in Unity a bit too and it's pretty great.
I think it's easier to overlook a lack of polish in turn-based games over real-time games. In action games the "feel" of things becomes more important and that's where I feel AAA games have spoiled a lot of players. Many indie games do manage to skirt this without being technically competent by using retro graphics, having a strong unique style or by not having combat as the main focus. Can you make hitting a target and breaching a hull feel just as rewarding to me as reading a wall of text about the internal organ injuries and assorted gore I've just inflicted? There are of course a lot more audio and visual cues than this that need to be pretty much right for it to really click together. Tweaking all those things takes a lot of effort. If you're passionate about getting these things right or have some creative way of solving them then I actually don't have a problem with it not being turn-based. Maybe being ambiguous has made everyone imagine the worst possible way to do it because they're biased toward liking turn-based games overall? Do you have a clear view of how the real time combat would play and what would make it fun (overall pace, individual vs team skill, auto aim or manual aim, average duration of a match etc.)? * I still want friendly fire in my coop games so I can backstab Xander. |
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*goat starer* Posted Nov 13, 2014, 7:32 pm |
Hi alo | ||||||||
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*Bigspenner* Posted Nov 13, 2014, 8:41 pm |
Change is bad, keep dw just as it is, except change it for the better but definately keep it the same and dont alter a thing except the bad things that must be altered no matter what the consquences. I feel very strongly that I dont mind either way if anything happens or not and I will fight to the very death to not have to argue in any way for or agaainst anything.
I hope that makes my position totally clear! |
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*goat starer* Posted Nov 13, 2014, 10:04 pm |
to be fair big that is the most coherent thing i have ever heard from you. |
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DiamondDog Posted Nov 18, 2014, 6:05 pm |
First off, let me say that this genre of game is my favorite. I found DW about a year ago searching for a spiritual successor to Car Wars based Roadwar 2000. I LOVED the Roadwar 2000 style of game, but always found that the turn-based combat become overwhelmingly clunky whenever your gang had more than a half-dozen vehicles. I have tinkered with Unity and think it's the perfect engine to make this type of game with. So here is my 2 cents:
1. Make it REAL TIME, but with a strategy based feel. Most of the player's time will be spent outfitting their cars and gang-members and choosing default actions/formations etc. Allow for lots of customization of the vehicles, adding hard-points, armor, top-side handholds for crazy melee types to leap from etc. 2. The game camera should be far enough away to capture most of the cars driving around via AI with the player selecting vehicles and giving orders (ie. all focus one enemy vehicle/ attempt to disable vehicle/ attempt to BOARD vehicle). The ensuing chaos should be rewarding in its awesomeness of watching the physics and mad-max style destruction with some text-based(not too many) updates on major changes in the battle. A space-bar click may be able to focus the camera on the vehicles involved in the latest major update message. 3. All relevant information about car condition, gang-member condition, targeting arcs/ranges and chances to hit should be displayed in the overall view in an intuitive way, both tied to the vehicles in question and perhaps on a side or bottom bar. Vehicles should be selectable from the bar or directly from the camera to be given more specific orders. This way you could select a bunch of cars to attack while individually selecting one car and having it flee. All attacks, hits, etc should have animations and values displayed in this overall view. 4. Combat results should be persistent, a damaged vehicle with dead/dying npcs should be salvagable, dying npcs should be recruitable (or executed) <-could influence gang morale? Destroyed vehicles should become salvagable scrap-metal (valuable for upgrading/repairing vehicles). Anything the character or npc gang cannot manage to limp away with should remain in location to be salvaged by others. 5. Treat ALL gang-members and NPCs with the SAME CODE. NPCs should be less-complicated when it comes to stats, skills etc. (some percentage for drive/shoot/melee) and MORE complicated when it comes to personality (empathic vs psychopathic), (courageous vs. cowardly), (selfish vs. group-minded). Give gang-members a morale metric that is based on combat outcomes and the Gang-leader's management style. Allow gang-members to become NPCs after a combat if it doesn't go as they like. (Hey, looks like we're all gonna die, I'm outta here....) Now that gang-member and the guys in his car just became NPCs. Taking an assault weapon away from a gang-member and giving him a knife and making him have to jump from a top-side position to take over cars should have some impact on how he feels about being in that gang. Some gang-members may feel like they were rewarded (psychotic courageous types) and others will feel slighted (empathic cowardly). Your ability to recruit NPCs should be based on a reputation system (do you execute everyone you defeat? psychopaths welcome..., do you patch-up defeated enemies and add them to your gang? hello empathic group-minded NPCs...) I personally think that playing a game where the interactions between NPCs and players feels more genuine and has lasting impacts is fun. If my group gets completely slaughtered by an enemy NPC gang, but my survivors and cars are incorporated and perpetuate, I may have a chance to run into them again (and have to fight or recruit them) and there is some consolation that they live on in the world. OK, I know it's a long post..... thoughts? |
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Groovelle Posted Feb 18, 2015, 4:47 pm |
I wonder if real time with pause has been considered. It was perfect for Baldur's Gate but could you make it work with vehicles? Would give you time to manage who does what in the car. | ||||||||
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Ashlee Posted May 28, 2015, 10:33 am |
If you make a number 2 depends on alot of things i think.
Perma death and real time. would make a cry hard game where a simple clitch could cost you ur entire crew not something people would look forward to or rave about. Wanna keep it simple if you wanna add in stuff like real time. A number 2 would be great could make it a simple single player game getting from one part of the world that's being taken over by zombies to the next part of the world who's people are not being eaten. (along with all the other creepy's) and raiders ect. Making it single player means you can make good NPC's they will need something charming about them. or something that stands out also means you can have bosses. should keep combat same, and getting away. BRUSH UP THE CAR'S make em look nice, also add in diffrent weapons if you can. (on board weapons) like the weapons now that are Inside the car and triggered with something on the inside of the car. (Mounted weapons) - a weapon fixed on the car that someone has to control and fire it and has a better fire range arc (aka can swirl around on it like a turret) also have on board weapons like that. makes on board weapons better cuz your gangers are safe while they inside fireing but the mounted ones aient so protected but have a better view of what they can fire at and change targets alot easyer. also would like to see gangersfire weapons from the inside of the cars and stuff like you have a rifle and ur not fireing it out a window? in life and death you would fire a rifle out a window just for extra fire power and try and throw greandes at cars ect...as well as firing all the other stuff. Sorry about spelling. In a rush. anyways ill add more if anyones intrested in hearing any more. |
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Karz Master Posted Jun 13, 2015, 5:20 pm |
Assuming we're still talking about DW2 and not a spinoff, here are some summarised thoughts:
+ Keep it phase-based. I really enjoy(ed) playing Darkwind because it is phase-based. Part of the game's charm is seeing what manner of physics affect your cars on the next turn. + Keep the physics (or even improve on them). + Keep the descriptive texts and add on to them. People keep quoting the blood sausage message from Wasteland (and at one point we kept quoting "face through brain") because you remember descriptions like that. + Keeping ped combat would be sweet, but not necessary. Still, if it's to be done, it should be on par with Shadowrun Returns, if not Jagged Alliance 2 (though JA2-like ped combat would certainly be glorious). + This is a matter of preference, but I enjoy playing Darkwind both with other players and solitaire. Still, if there's a DW2, I'd definitely like to see a singleplayer mode. And if there's going to be a singleplayer mode, given the competitive nature of DW, a closer parallel to a genre of games would be in 4X style. Even though it's not a 4X game, DW has most of its elements (explore, exploit, expand, exterminate). 4X games can be fun in multiplayer mode too. + Add on to its game mechanics (ie depth), not streamline it. Most game mechanics and number-crunchy systems are fine in DW (barring hilltop camping). + If moving to Unity, ditch the current art style and do an overhaul of textures, skins, UI and artwork. Hire an artist, etc. + More music and sfx please. + Moddability. Let modders create quests, text descriptions, skins, models, new towns, re-balanced mechanics, etc. Sources of revenue: - Kickstarter/Indiegogo/Patreon/some other crowdfunding site - Steam Early Access - Eventual distribution on more platforms eg GOG, Steam You just let me know when you're doing a DRM-free, singleplayer-able game like that, Sam, and I'll throw down $1000 immediately, no hesitation. |
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Groovelle Posted Jun 17, 2015, 7:36 am |
Shoot Karz, if he's talking crowd funding tomorrow I'm in it with two tires a broken rim and a shredded car frame right now. (Gotta scav it up) | ||||||||
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Karz Master Posted Aug 7, 2015, 3:41 am |
C'mon Sam, you know where your true destiny lies!
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Jyson Khan Posted Aug 16, 2015, 8:52 pm |
and the option to include your personal library of music to playlist |
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Rex-Rillian Posted Sep 26, 2015, 9:59 pm |
i have to agree with this there are lots of driving sims and race sims and race shoot'em ups where your driving a car in RT and i don't play any of them i hate driving games DW1 is unique in its mechanics and gameplay i mean MAD MAX has just come out that is DW in 3d third person with a massive budget and dev team. DW is uniqe it is already niche you just need to get more coverage of it its been running how many years and i just found it last week iv wanted a game like this for ever IMO upgrade the graphics, and the ability of friends to form factions, maybe faction buildings or camps. the game play as it is, is what makes this game special. we just need to get the word out that the games here many an old table top car wars players would love this they just need to hear about it oh and the game window make it ajustable in size and some way to increase the text size with out crashing the window |
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Ghost98 Posted Oct 29, 2015, 4:29 pm |
I like that u thought of us mac users. We often are forgoten so thanks.
In terms of ideas. I like the turn based style car movements. It adds depth to the game. My main idea would be made it stable and playable at 2gb ram and 206mb gpu like it is now. Personally graphics are not a problem as the game has tidy enough graphics to be able to see whats going on. My main problem with dw now is that the mac version isnt stable for me. The game client keeps crashing. Especially when i try to scout or travel or even tryto host my own event. Personally all id like to see is a new. Bigger world with more towns. New features like buying our own properties to produce stuff like our own cars(after collecting parts in scouts an travel. Of course). Id also like to see more freedom for free players. Im a free player an i dont like the fact i cant travel out of the northen triangle or use training facilities. Make it so premium members have access to pvp or high paying competitve league events or something. There is nothing worse than having a f2p where u hav to pay to go somewhere in an "open world game". The game client is the main ui id fix. Its old looking, clunky an runs poorly on mac. In terms of everything else. New cars, characters, supplies would do nice. Maybe a new economy system in towns where if their is a shortage of something. Buying prices rise (this adds to my idea of players buying properties to produce supplies. Help with the economy) Overall. As long as the game runs fine, and my 4gb ram 2.2ghz cpu 512mb gpu can run the game. Im fine. Having the browser an client is actually useful once gotten use too so some game data can be stored here rather than in game client to save space an cpu stress. |
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Groovelle Posted Oct 30, 2015, 3:26 am |
Come on Sam, I'll give you my first born. And my second. And my third. Basically all of them, I don't really want kids. | ||||||||
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Karz Master Posted Nov 19, 2015, 1:16 am |
I'd also like to add that the ship's about to sail. The "old-school renaissance" is almost over; the last major title is the successor to one of the most influential and iconic FPRPGs ever made, and it only got $860k. Well D:OS2 got $2mil but that's partially because of D:OS1's success.
Anyway does Sam even read the boards nowadays?
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*sam* Posted Nov 22, 2015, 6:30 pm |
Yes, sometimes. I don't work to any "ship about to sail" agenda in my games dev.. that's a quick way to get yourself in a twist. A good game is a good game, and there is always room for more. |
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*Ninesticks* Posted Nov 22, 2015, 7:01 pm |
Plenty of fans of turn-based the 2.8 mill for Battletech shows that I would argue. | ||||||||
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Karz Master Posted Dec 5, 2015, 10:04 am |
Which I'd counter had been riding on the success of HBS's previous titles; this doesn't include the fact that CGL had released a new and improved Introductory Box Set only about a year ago, and the release of Alpha Strike two years prior. People, even locally with limited tabletop gaming groups, still play BT.
Anyways IMO DW is one of the greatest games that no one's played, and could easily be labelled as the only one of its kind. I'd really like to sink my teeth into a DW2, but as far as hoping for it goes, that day will come when it comes. /butthurt
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*SmokeyKilla* Posted May 11, 2016, 11:02 am |
Hey guys firstly apologies for not being around I have been trying to make a new version of DW using unity5.
I have made a handful of prototypes and have a great working knowledge of networking now (previously I knew stuff all). The aim of the project is to modernize Darkwind and also attract lots of new players. What I have discovered......basically using realistic graphics and effects, networking in Unity 5 can handle two teams of 18 vs 18 pvp or three teams of 12 vs 12vs 12. Things I have tried...... 1) No-one wants to play a turn-based car game so remaking Dark Wind will not attract new players. 2) A thirdperson sandbox style game- to easy to grief players, to easy to die, can only control one character at a time, pretty much felt like a grand theft auto ripoff. 3)A Real time car combat game that used slow motion when any combat occurred. This just turned into a huge pile of ####....anymore than 2 cars per player became to hard to manage just turned into a massive click fest. 4)RTS...felt like command and conquer boring and didn't feel like Darkwind. 4) First Person Shooter......with the option of zooming out to 3rd person when in cars...... cons- nearly impossible to shoot side or rear mounted weapons when moving and actually hit anything, very easy to be killed outside a vehicle. So then I decided to make turrets for all vehicles....it felt like world of tanks in cars. Then I tried having several players in the one vehicle ....felt like Darkwind should however players lives are basically in the hands of the driver its to easy to crash the car at 100kmh into a building and kill everyone. If a player disconnects you lose a weapon. To easy to abuse and leads to griefing and flame wars. My Solution. make a game very similar to Heroes and Generals but insert Darkwind style cars and characters. |
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Joel Autobaun Posted May 11, 2016, 11:54 pm |
Wow, impressive. I wouldn't play that game though. Not that it wouldn't be a good game though. | ||||||||
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*viKKing* Posted May 12, 2016, 6:31 am |
I've been playing a lot World of Tanks past months, must have played around 2,500 fights (console). It came to my mind, DW could be based upon it. What I like: - 15 min max combats and possibility to play another game with an other vehicle meanwhile (limited to 3). - easy to play and fun as hell even on maps you played several times - 16 vs 16 PvP, real time (not my cup of tea in general) - good progression system, somewhat long when you play free - but it works - nice tank models, good maps and sceneries - battles with a goal - custom skins and decals What I dislike: - not enough customization on components, but since it is based on historical vehicles, so, that's meant to be limited! |
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*SmokeyKilla* Posted May 12, 2016, 12:50 pm |
Ok I gotta admit WOT is a great game. In the prototype i made there was the ability to use 2 weapons in the turret the LMB and RMB controlled the weapons...so you could have a HMG and a RL mounted in a turret on a buzzer and heaps of spare ammo.....on bigger vehicles like a truck and trailer or fire engine we could allow 2 or more turrets. My aim is to make the vehicles even more custom than they are now. Especially defensive weapons like mines, smoke screens, flaming oil etc. Basically everything else will be incorporated into the game like your gangers and skills. The only thing I havnt worked out is the perma death and destruction of cars..........and also how the pvp map of evan will work.
example you have an 18 vs 18 battle how many (if any) respawns do you get? I can easily upload a prototype of the game with cars with turrets with some simple npcs to shoot to see if this is the way we wanna go? if your vehicle gets destroyed do you lose it instantly? perma death to gangers....how will it work? |
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*The X Man* Posted May 12, 2016, 5:33 pm |
Car destroyed, it is gone for good. Very rarely, if you have a highly skilled mech, would you be able to salvage the chassis to haul back to town. I have only had this happen once, my car blew up, but I got it back at 0% chassis and minus the engine and weapons.
Characters get shot and die, they stay dead. Injuries need to be taken into consideration, especially loss of limbs. I still think loss of arm should directly affect accuracy more (eye included) and loss of leg should affect speed (including the 2 toes). When it was functioning, only one second spawn could occur per encounter. If you haven't seen this yet, Magus posted this recently, Crossout. You should take a look and see if this is the direction you are heading. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EiddbzluhGg |
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*SmokeyKilla* Posted May 13, 2016, 12:01 am |
yep pretty much except guns would shoot slower once every second as they do now and your ganger skills will relate to the handling of the car and weapons the same as they do now. A driver with only a skill of 20 will have the car handle poorly, accelerate slower and spin out easier than say one with a skill of 100. Weapons will be the same. A low skill gunner will have the weapon sway a lot more, recoil will more pronounced (making it harder to stay on target), gun jams more frequent etc.
So basically the skill of your gangers will relate directly to the handling and shooting of your vehicle. |
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*SmokeyKilla* Posted May 30, 2016, 2:28 pm |
So I have played CrossOut closed beta definitely not the direction I would like to see Darkwind go. Don't get me wrong the game is a great idea just needs a lot of balancing (as with any game). Already the forums there are getting toxic, some of the early builds looked great now they are just mass cages of lego blocks and really look terrible and detract from the overall gameplay. I honestly now see if darkwind was to be turned into a realtime game it would be single player, story line driven, with maybe, some arena events as pvp only. It would basically eliminates 90% of the flaming, trolling and all the stuff Sam has to put up with for the last 11 years
Graphics sounds visuals and game play 100% execution maybe 20%....I can see already it is gonna turn into a massive pay to win game....If the current economy and grind stay the way they are. As much as we all love Joel ........ATM Crossout is a massive russian invasion of Joel's Bastards, all sporting the toughest builds with enough weapons to one hit kill you.
Maybe the solution is as simple as my girlfriend said "why not just make the map of Evan more symmetrical and have one side played in real time and the other turnbased.?" |
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*viKKing* Posted May 30, 2016, 3:57 pm |
One of my problem with DW, is length of games. I can not afford so much time. A 15-30 minutes is fine. It could be done even with turn-based game, hence number of player controlled vehicles need to be limited. IMHO, of course!
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*StCrispin* ce.services.mh@gmail.com Posted Jun 23, 2016, 5:45 am |
War Thunder is another example of how a car game would work in real time but again you only have a Turret and the weapons in that turret or multiple turrets facing whichever side the main gun is pointed (in WT its generally you Tank Gun and some MGs, or your AAA cannons)
Personally I much prefer Turn Based but I realize thats not a big draw for most gamers. Im CONSTANTLY playing games like the Total War Series (Shogun, Empire, Medieval, Rome) or the Wargame Series (European Escalation, AirLand Battle, Red Dragon) and wishing it was turn based so I could control my units more effectively than trying to switch back and forth as fast as I can and not get to see any of the action. |
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Karz Master Posted Jun 26, 2016, 6:12 pm |
That's my preference too. In the end, if there is a DW2 and it ends up being real-time, I will still buy it to support Sam (a small token for all the hours of entertainment that I have gotten from Darkwind), but it's unlikely I'll ever play it.
In fact, getting into tabletop RPGs has spoiled me. Real-time may be able to depict scenes in a more believable manner, but turn-based/phase-based rules that simulate reality open up far more gameplay opportunities; plus the abstraction as such really sparks the imagination. |
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Groovelle Posted Dec 26, 2021, 4:24 am |
3-way fights?
Happen upon Honor or Death raiding the ironmongers and decide what to do. |
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Fealty Lost Posted Dec 27, 2021, 12:49 am |
Random map generator with player choices: you pick the terrain you want to fight on. Based on scout skill if you get it or not. You can choose sand, grass, etc, then rolling hills, valleys, etc. You know, so mega-scouters can go past GW without getting bridge out and dying a horrible death because those maps are ludicrous and nobody would build/make one like that.
As if I'd ever drive 18+ vehicles into those areas. |
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ShawnFireDragon coldmolasses@live.ca Posted Jan 8, 2022, 2:22 pm |
Cracking a smile and nodds to Groovelle
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