*sam* Posted Nov 11, 2007, 4:30 pm	Looting . You can now change car tyres, refuel from defeated enemies, and reload weapons during the looting phase (all these are done by right-clicking a vehicle you own on the looting screen. Weapons are reloaded if their ammo is 50% or less, tyres are switched if they are damaged and a better one is in the car?s cargo) · Added a 'clean up' phase automated at the end of looting so any carless characters are automatically put into cars in your loot boxes that have no driver. Landrunner Improved landrunner textures (thanks alo!) Crash damage I have made high-speed collisions with vehicles, terrain and other objects more deadly, and made it possible for collision damage to go internal even before armour is gone. Roll cages can now be added to vehicles (only when they are first being designed - if you don't see the option at Jake's then please empty your browser cache and try again) and this reduces the amount of crash damage that tends to bypass armour. Many of the stock racing vehicles are now fitted with roll cages. Wilderness NPCs Fixed the mistake which was spawning a lot of the newer NPC wilderness cars with just one character in.
*viKKing* Posted Nov 11, 2007, 6:54 pm	Woohoo! I wish I could play more often...
ISHOULDCOCO Posted Nov 11, 2007, 8:41 pm	And enemy Damage is now numberless (works too) more edgy now COCO
Alocalypse Posted Nov 11, 2007, 9:03 pm	I very much like the reload/refuel/retire stuff in looting. But I somehow ended up with "Fuel 12 of 8" units after S13231 in Advanced Spray. I'm not sure I like lack of exact armor numbers, but I can live without them I guess. The increased internal damage from collisions is interesting and should be interesting gameplay wise but the it really hurts the NPCs a lot more (perhaps even too much) - when before they simply got 1-3p armor damage when turning around in larger grops of 10+ cars then now injury and weapon damage is quite likely...
*sam* Posted Nov 11, 2007, 9:15 pm	Quote: But I somehow ended up with "Fuel 12 of 8" units after S13231 in Advanced Spray Yeah, that was intentional (believe it or not!) - I was forced to work it that way because fuel isn't subtracted until you arrive, therefore it would be impossible to refuel without 'over-filling'. If you get me. But I'll change how it's reported. Quote: The increased internal damage from collisions is interesting and should be interesting gameplay wise but the it really hurts the NPCs a lot more (perhaps even too much) - when before they simply got 1-3p armor damage when turning around in larger grops of 10+ cars then now injury and weapon damage is quite likely... Hmm yes, good point.. have you tried this out? It takes a moderate impact to trigger any internal damage, so perhaps they'll be ok. But I have one hand on the button marked 'tweak'
Alocalypse Posted Nov 11, 2007, 9:39 pm	*sam* said: Hmm yes, good point.. have you tried this out? It takes a moderate impact to trigger any internal damage, so perhaps they'll be ok. But I have one hand on the button marked 'tweak'  Yeah I had a few NPC cars take internal damage like this in the past 1-2 scouts, so it might not turn out to be a major problem, but I'd need to see how it works out on other maps/spawns. I really feel that this makes things much more exiting though, before having even a few points of armor made you safe from most collision damage, while now... you never know
Joram Posted Nov 12, 2007, 12:59 am	Not sure if I like the new crash damage at all. Ramming wasn't that viable before and now is almost impossible. I've wasted a bit of money already because of weapons being damaged after being kamikazeed by the AI or running into a speedbump. Maybe I will get used to it but at this point I'm not a fan.
darthspanky Posted Nov 12, 2007, 1:12 am	me personally dont like crash rules but it does make ya less reckless does this make rams and spikes obsolete? what about cars we already own any way to add rollcage for a little protection or just buy new cars?
Joram Posted Nov 12, 2007, 3:36 am	Yeah, rams and such are pretty much useless atm. It's a shame cause I keep invisioning having a big bad truck that just rams the crap out of people hehe. Now it would be completely unviable.
Ironwolf Posted Nov 12, 2007, 3:57 am	Maybe vehicles with rams equiped could use the old ramming rules? That would improve the ram situation a lot.
*Ayjona* Posted Nov 12, 2007, 4:09 am	Since I do only wilderness scouts, I rather like this. Makes it even easier to trick your enemy into hurting himself. However, what I do not like, after four test runs with the new system, was how vulnerable weapons are. I jumped a very small hill while fighting 8 guys outside of Gateway (me and Rhalp actually won, with just two cars, thanks to tricky driving and the new collision system). When I touched down from the jump, I not only lost three points of armor, but also lost 30% of the health of my front-mounted HMG, and damaged my engine down to 80% something. And I took both this engine damage and weapon damage when I had 15 points of front armor left on my Buccaneer! My HMG kept jamming every other round through the whole combat. If it is that easy to hurt your own weapons and engine, tricky off-road driving tactics will be far too dangerous to employ. Worth adding to the argument that started this debate and led to the increased collision damage, is that is it not possible to compare collision damage in Darkwind to collision damage in the real world, because the Darkwind vehicles actually has heavy armor. A real-world car probably only has a few points, while its Darkwind equivalent has anything from a few to 40 points. Also, while I cannot, in any way, with my very limited knowledge of vehicles and weapons, confirm this, I'm guessing that if we run a few real-world tests where we compare distributed collision damage to the much more area-concentrated damage from real-world heavy machine guns (not to mention canons and ATGs!), we would see that the old ratio between collision damage and weapon damage was reasonably balanced. But, in spite of this, I like the new collision damage overall. Higher vulnerability means more skill is required, and that tricking your enemies will be more difficult, but also more rewarding. But I've heard complaints about races being very, very hard to finish now, and I've seen the weapon and engine damage for myself and that, I believe, will detract from the gameplay experience.
*Chase Bansi* JohnBMan033@aol.com Posted Nov 12, 2007, 5:34 am	Yikes! 30 bulk for the roll cage in an Apache. That's a whole different price all together. But with Ayjona's reports of damage it will be risky to NOT pay the price. For vehicles that run town to town this will cost valuable cargo space. This may cause some tactical rethink. I foresee the need for sniper skills with lasers to avoid close combat. Even in smaller cars with 20 bulk for the cage it could mean no room for a gunner or limited to smaller weapons.
Ironwolf Posted Nov 12, 2007, 7:11 am	The new ramming makes it impossible to race now. The NPC cars have have no clue how to drive and are always hitting me. I tried it out just to be sure before i came here to complain and my car didn't even make it through the first lap. Some NPC car driving sideways across the track sideswiped me, blowing my tires and causing heavy engine damage in the process.
*viKKing* Posted Nov 12, 2007, 7:54 am	I haven't tested the new system, and understand complains, though, I seem to see a little care is needed in car driving, and I think it is very positive. @Ayjona: at what speed did the collision happened? Of course weapons are exposed to damages, and damaging them is normal. Since I'm not playing that much anymore, I'm ahppy to see the Jamming Curse has moved to someone else! @Ironwolf: NPCs have clue: win the race. Maybe reducing the current system by half could re-balance it? as long as ramming devices can be used in the right way.
*sam* Posted Nov 12, 2007, 10:01 am	As always, I'm happy to tweak things.. I'll go right now and tone down the new rules a bit, and we can see how it goes from there. In terms of the viability of rams and spikes, my take on this would be that a vehicle using them would be advised to have a roll cage. Just think of the damage you could wreck on someone with no cage then!
*viKKing* Posted Nov 12, 2007, 10:08 am	Couldn't roll cages be available for existing vehicles with an extra bulk cost?
*sam* Posted Nov 12, 2007, 10:09 am	I could just make them fittable to existing vehicles, but it would cost quite a bit extra, and would remove all current armour...?
*viKKing* Posted Nov 12, 2007, 10:13 am	Removing armour: no I don't think so, if we do refer to existing and real vehicles, a roll cage can be either internal or external. Being added after the vehicle has been built should make it more easy to be damaged. Regarding coding side, yes. When you have armour to be repaired is certainly the right moment to add a roll cage.
*sam* Posted Nov 12, 2007, 10:16 am	OK, I have modified the new rules. Now, a crash needs to be quite a bit heavier than before for internal damage to happen. The amount of internal damage is also less than before, and the amount of 'spread' is reduced.
Ironwolf Posted Nov 12, 2007, 12:20 pm	*sam* said: OK, I have modified the new rules. Now, a crash needs to be quite a bit heavier than before for internal damage to happen. The amount of internal damage is also less than before, and the amount of 'spread' is reduced. Thanks sam! ^_^
darthspanky Posted Nov 12, 2007, 4:02 pm	perhaps ya could reset them to your original levels? then there could be new inventions? like adapting by adding new items such as safty seats, and component armor for the weapons. just an idea but the rollcages are a nice new item too. id love to see ejection seats that allow ya to ecsape yer car or just launch a guy ya dont like lol
*Toecutter* Posted Nov 13, 2007, 12:44 am	Quote: I have made high-speed collisions with vehicles, terrain and other objects more deadly, and made it possible for collision damage to go internal even before armour is gone. Roll cages can now be added to vehicles (only when they are first being designed - if you don't see the option at Jake's then please empty your browser cache and try again) and this reduces the amount of crash damage that tends to bypass armour. Many of the stock racing vehicles are now fitted with roll cages. what about us who have older tried and true cars...i have space but jeezz...sounds like i'me screwed
*sam* Posted Nov 13, 2007, 12:56 am	yeah I guess they should be addable later too, maybe at a higher cost and taking longer to complete?
Ironwolf Posted Nov 13, 2007, 1:15 pm	*Toecutter* said: Quote: I have made high-speed collisions with vehicles, terrain and other objects more deadly, and made it possible for collision damage to go internal even before armour is gone. Roll cages can now be added to vehicles (only when they are first being designed - if you don't see the option at Jake's then please empty your browser cache and try again) and this reduces the amount of crash damage that tends to bypass armour. Many of the stock racing vehicles are now fitted with roll cages. what about us who have older tried and true cars...i have space but jeezz...sounds like i'me screwed  Very much agree. I just got a vampire and then rollcages came out right after. I really don't want to have to get a whole new vampire when i just got the one i have. They're not exactly common, at least in summerset where i live. I'd love a way to just add a rollcage to it even if it costed more and took longer. Edit: And also a way to take them out. I have an apache i decided would be better off with a flaming oil jet than a rollcage once the ramming change was rebalanced better. When it first came out i thought all my cars were going to need one, but then sam fixed it and i don't want the rollcage, but have no way of removing it.
*sam* Posted Nov 13, 2007, 1:37 pm	Ye, I'll implement rollcage add/remove in the next day or two.
Ironwolf Posted Nov 13, 2007, 2:26 pm	Thanks sam. You just saved 2 of my cars.
Ironwolf Posted Nov 13, 2007, 4:28 pm	I just noticed the rollcage on my apache isn't taking the 30 bulk it claims it does, none at all actually. When i bought a second apache and fitted it out the same as the other one i noticed they both have the same bulk left even though they're both identical except for one having a rollcage. Is this a bug or intended?
*sam* Posted Nov 13, 2007, 4:52 pm	Sorry, that was a mistake. Fixed now. I have also just added the option to add/remove a rollcage: you'll see the option when you view a car from the mechanic shop.
WolfEater Posted Nov 19, 2007, 6:37 pm	great thx