*Bastille* Posted Dec 17, 2013, 11:28 am	Theres a thread thats been going for ages now with NPC designs Would any body like to see any of these designs? Would you prefer to see more trade vehicles, more pirate vehicles, a new deathracer or combat car. Some have talked about varying armour types. Do you have anything else to say on it?
Racing Robbie Posted Dec 17, 2013, 1:17 pm	Yes please to all Variety is the spice of life or so they say ;-)
Necrotech Posted Dec 17, 2013, 1:59 pm	*Bastille* said: Theres a thread thats been going for ages now with NPC designs Would any body like to see any of these designs? Would you prefer to see more trade vehicles, more pirate vehicles, a new deathracer or combat car. Some have talked about varying armour types. Do you have anything else to say on it? What I would love to see is for each common and semi rare body types that have random weapon types that appear. If a vehicle has allocation for say 60 points... might get a mmg set, perhaps a single car cannon or atg... maybe a napalm gun and a mmg... Because you never quite know what you get... But other than that... sure love to see the designs....
Bolt Thrower Posted Dec 17, 2013, 3:31 pm	ANC's with compact death traps for the enjoyment of the masses.
PvtParty Posted Dec 17, 2013, 3:42 pm	As well as adding new designs, can I suggest the removal of some designs from certain events. CoE III events with Sporty Vans and Semi Tractors often turn into frustrating experiences, largely due to the inability of such vehicles to reach difficult gates. Maybe if some new racer types are created, these could be used to replace such duffers. Necro's idea for a random element would be good, providing it can be coded to generate sensible alternatives, rather than more useless designs like the Da Vinci. Not knowing whether your opponent is mounting an MG or a HMG would introduce a much-needed sense of trepidation.
Necrotech Posted Dec 17, 2013, 4:45 pm	Quote: Necro's idea for a random element would be good, providing it can be coded to generate sensible alternatives, rather than more useless designs like the Da Vinci... Give the Davinci a Napalm Gun instead of a Paintgun "Salamander" Make a Napalm version of the Maelstrom "Pyroclasm"
FireFly Posted Dec 17, 2013, 6:45 pm	Never look down on the davinci, it might not be the same these days but back in the old days a da-vinci or other vehicle with PG's was the ONLY think that would scare even veterans in fire engines if they got close. Now that I think of it, veterans in fire engines even more
Juris Posted Dec 17, 2013, 7:15 pm	Yes Sam should let players submit designs and pick the best ones to use - I'd definitely like to see designs that incorporate the NG and maybe even the FG, or trader vehicles with dropped weapons that they know how to use (ie repeat fire) *Bastille* said: Theres a thread thats been going for ages now with NPC designs Would any body like to see any of these designs? Would you prefer to see more trade vehicles, more pirate vehicles, a new deathracer or combat car. Some have talked about varying armour types. Do you have anything else to say on it?
*Rev. V* Posted Dec 17, 2013, 8:26 pm	" it might not be the same these days but back in the old days a da-vinci or other vehicle with PG's was the ONLY think that would scare even veterans in fire engines if they got close. " Yeah, before paint got nerfed, DaVinci's were a NPC build you had to worry about. But back then PG's were worth MONEY too.... If you were a newb and looted one, your gang was gonna have a serious financial windfall if you put it up in the market. I laugh when I see DaVinci's now....harder when it's 6 turns into the loot process and the PG is still sitting there! Ah, the good old days.....
FireFly Posted Dec 17, 2013, 10:30 pm	To be honest, I miss the ability to run REAL megas more than the PG's
Bolt Thrower Posted Dec 17, 2013, 10:42 pm	Do Ps's or PG's do anything other than turn your car pink. I ran some in a deathrace, but really didn't see an effect.
*goat starer* Posted Dec 18, 2013, 12:10 am	I still find paint scary. Just a few turns of innacurate shooting down south can be fatal.
*Snipe* Posted Dec 18, 2013, 2:12 am	Bolt Thrower said: Do Ps's or PG's do anything other than turn your car pink.  I ran some in a deathrace, but really didn't see an effect. They do.  Each time they are painted it lowers their to-hit.  I have had a Sniper3 miss at near point blank range for 3 turns after getting painted 3 times in a row.  And it takes a few turns to clear too.
FireFly Posted Dec 18, 2013, 2:17 am	*Snipe* said: Bolt Thrower said: Do Ps's or PG's do anything other than turn your car pink.  I ran some in a deathrace, but really didn't see an effect. They do.  Each time they are painted it lowers their to-hit.  I have had a Sniper3 miss at near point blank range for 3 turns after getting painted 3 times in a row.  And it takes a few turns to clear too. Almost lost a twin tankgun FE to this once, crewed by my best people no less! It was struck by about 5 or 6 PG strikes at the very least and it couldn't hit jackall for the next 10 turns at least. Certainly not useless, simply sub-optimal for PvP, just like a lot of weapons.
*Bastille* Posted Dec 18, 2013, 2:48 am	yeah, paint still scary imo Anyways, would seem this is a fairly popular thing, might have to run one past sam and see what he says. Although, I do believe he stated recently that he is old and senile and cannot remember the code anymore. Theres an element of a fine political leader.
*Longo* Posted Dec 18, 2013, 4:05 am	How about more models.... El Camino, Limo, Volkswagon Beetle....
*Bastille* Posted Dec 18, 2013, 4:25 am	GMC suburban 50s Buick roadmaster
Bolt Thrower Posted Dec 18, 2013, 4:48 am	I am surprised there are not VW beetles. That is a car I kind of associated with the apocalypse. Almost as many of them as real beetles.
*Maxxed* Posted Dec 18, 2013, 3:04 pm	I would love to see more variety in the wilderness builds and death-racers particularly of the common chassis that only have a few variants. The death-races where the vehicles have rear and side weapons are far more interesting as it avoids the standard tactic of hanging to the back and waiting till the NPC kill themselves and then mopping up.
Necrotech Posted Dec 18, 2013, 4:28 pm	Bolt Thrower said: I am surprised there are not VW beetles.  That is a car I kind of associated with the apocalypse.  Almost as many of them as real beetles. That VW Apocalypse will look like this
musashi_san Posted Dec 18, 2013, 4:32 pm	goat starer said: I still find paint scary. Just a few turns of innacurate shooting down south can be fatal. also kinda annoying for a pure laser build.
Bolt Thrower Posted Dec 18, 2013, 8:52 pm	Something like this, except all "Baja bugs". Necrotech said: That VW Apocalypse will look like this
Lord Foul Posted Dec 19, 2013, 6:57 am	I'm pretty sure every player would want more of everything, but at this point in the games life I just don't see that happening. I believe it's been about 3+ years since Sam added new cars and designs.
*Bastille* Posted Dec 19, 2013, 1:45 pm	Too true. But this could all be valuable info for a follow up game. Is the Mutant Bomber the last added vehicle? Maybe the King Silage?
Racing Robbie Posted Dec 23, 2013, 12:31 pm	Lord Foul said: I'm pretty sure every player would want more of everything, but at this point in the games life I just don't see that happening. I believe it's been about 3+ years since Sam added new cars and designs. I did talk to him a while back about adding new cars and he wasn’t against the idea. The problem was my skills with blender let me down and I couldn’t get the models done :-( So anyone out there an expect with blender? I’m not sure about new designs using existing chassis – I can’t imagine that they would be too hard to add to the game as all the physics and skins are there. But I’m not Sam – lets hope he’s listening ;-) RR
*Bastille* Posted Dec 23, 2013, 1:23 pm	Yeah, I would think its as easy as adding a few lines to an already existing database.
*Rev. V* Posted Jan 2, 2014, 6:55 pm	"I believe it's been about 3+ years since Sam added new cars and designs." Actually, no, shorter than that I believe... We got the Wurzel and the revamped Stormer. That can't have been 3 years ago, can it?
*Bastille* Posted Jan 2, 2014, 9:32 pm	There have been more recent models added, but not sure about NPC designs. There is a pretty diverse set of builds already.
*Boonwolf* Posted Jan 3, 2014, 5:40 am	Would be nice to see NPC use oil jets and flaming oil on there trader cars, or even a napalm for the real high famers down south. As a human player I use them on almost all of my cargo runs....... Befor reputation balanced.
*sam* Posted Jan 6, 2014, 5:19 pm	*Bastille* said: yeah, paint still scary imo Anyways, would seem this is a fairly popular thing, might have to run one past sam and see what he says. Although, I do believe he stated recently that he is old and senile and cannot remember the code anymore. Theres an element of a fine political leader. Hehhe, that's pretty funny. As some have you have noted, I don't mind adding new NPC builds as they're only a few minutes work each. Adding new chassis though is typically about 90+ minutes so I'd rather not. Although I do have a nice VW Beetle model that's sorely tempting... Anyway... how about if you guys can agree on say 5 new NPC builds, I'll promise to put them in??
Juris Posted Jan 6, 2014, 6:17 pm	*sam* said: Anyway... how about if you guys can agree on say 5 new NPC builds, I'll promise to put them in?? There's like a million ideas! I think each long term subscriber should be able to submit a single design
*DoubleTap* Posted Jan 6, 2014, 6:26 pm	You want THIS community to agree on ANYTHING?
*Snipe* Posted Jan 6, 2014, 6:42 pm	Well, lets start this off with a simple question. Which kind of enemy car are we lacking? Personally I think one added one should be a runner with NG. NPC actually use ballistics - not so much drops.
Juris Posted Jan 6, 2014, 6:57 pm	*Snipe* said: Well, lets start this off with a simple question. Which kind of enemy car are we lacking?  Personally I think one added one should be a runner with NG.  NPC actually use ballistics - not so much drops. Definitely - dual-NG fast trader with reloads would be nasty - like a 3.2 merc - it would still have plenty of room for cargo.  That could be your build Snipe
*Snipe* Posted Jan 6, 2014, 7:00 pm	Lol - don't get me to make one. I could fill pages of builds. That is one thing I do well, make different builds.
*Rev. V* Posted Jan 6, 2014, 7:07 pm	I think we can all agree that 90 minute periods of pain for Sam are NOTHING when compared to the joy we would get from new chassis in the game......
*Boonwolf* Posted Jan 6, 2014, 9:15 pm	We should take a look at guns that are not equipped on NPCs, that way scavs can get there hands on guns only produced in camps. LMG NG OJ HOJ HFOJ FOJ HPS HRR MRR. Some I think can be dropped fron triad cargo not sure.
Bolt Thrower Posted Jan 7, 2014, 12:11 am	For information purposes (not sure how accurate it is) Not sure how up to date the wiki is. Looks like 2011 was last update. According to wiki, car models not seen in wild are: Alpha, Bus, Dustup, Buggy (ANC in FL still?), Semi-Tractor, Tanker, Stormer, Roadrunner, Osprey, Corghette, Cougar, Royal Eaton, Deville, McKenzie, Hotrod, Turin, and Windsor I (does this still exist?). Also, only squadcar build is a laser build. According to wiki, weapons not seen in wild are: flechette gun, mini rocket/mrp, rocket racks, radar guided missile, smoke gun (does this exist?), smoke and heavy smoke screens, napalm gun, heavy paint sprayer, spike dropper, OJ, HOJ, HFOJ, nitrous booster, and rocket booster. Also, LMG is not in wiki and not on any builds afaik.
*Rev. V* Posted Jan 7, 2014, 12:55 am	I've looted flechette guns in the wild
*Bigspenner* Posted Jan 7, 2014, 1:11 am	I would like to see some of the rarer stuff appear in the wild, like lasers and the rare chassis. Basically the equipment that is solely available to the powerful camp members as it stands now. I would be happy for it to come at a price though for example even more dangerous spawns from high fame gangs. So far in a year of scouting badlands shantyville and now firelight I have only faced one vehicle with a laser and have never faced hvy lasers, squad cars, racing cars and quite a lot of other stuff.
Bolt Thrower Posted Jan 7, 2014, 3:24 am	Like I said, I am going off the wiki, which is probably 2 years out of date. I do not think I have run into anything not on the wiki, but most of my fights are with lower fame gangs.
musashi_san Posted Jan 7, 2014, 3:32 am	Bigspenner said: I would like to see some of the rarer stuff appear in the wild, like lasers and the rare chassis. Basically the equipment that is solely available to the powerful camp members as it stands now. I would be happy for it to come at a price though for example even more dangerous spawns from high fame gangs. So far in a year of scouting badlands shantyville and now firelight I have only faced one vehicle with a laser and have never faced hvy lasers, squad cars, racing cars and quite a lot of other stuff. lasers you can only get in the wild or in leagues, cant make in camp. ditto for heavy lasers, rgm's and squad cars. its true you dont see mckenzie's or devilles in the wild, but that makes sense, who the heck would drive that out there? they're race cars. would like to see a turin build in the wild as that is a workable combat car. also a build with an rgm would be nice as currently the only way to get that is winning a league.
*Snipe* Posted Jan 7, 2014, 6:04 am	musashi_san said: its true you dont see mckenzie's or devilles in the wild, but that makes sense, who the heck would drive that out there? they're race cars. Then dont peek in my garage and see my Deville and McKenzie scouting duo.  I do use them.
*Bastille* Posted Jan 7, 2014, 6:04 am	Not sure if you can get RGMs from traders? HLs you can, but thats about as common as I think they should be. These are super rare items. Flechette guns pretty much the same. I agree some more builds to aid the scav community would be good. Theres a huge list of cars in the other thread. Could be a good place to start. Then say the top 20 builds could be put in another poll. (if a poll allows that many choices?) Then that pole could be used to bash Revs nuns into submission.
Racing Robbie Posted Jan 7, 2014, 10:00 am	Right perhaps if we could agree on a few different types to think on. I would suggest something like: 1. New Bulk carrier for traders, with dropped weapons 2. New runner for trader with ballistics 3. New chaser type for pirates 4. New line fighter type for pirates 5. New light fight/scout type for pirates Right just throw a few ideas out there. 1 – how about a bus, give it FOJ and MD rear, RLs front and smoke side, 4 crew 2 – Runner for traders, Osprey springs to mind with a NGs 3 – Stormer with v8 and maybe twin GGs 4 – How about a decent set up for a Wurzel 5 – Dustup maybe Just to give us a start point – ideas?
*Rev. V* Posted Jan 7, 2014, 6:59 pm	A Wurz with NGs sounds like I huge PITA to deal with... I like it.
musashi_san Posted Jan 7, 2014, 7:20 pm	*Snipe* said: musashi_san said: its true you dont see mckenzie's or devilles in the wild, but that makes sense, who the heck would drive that out there? they're race cars. Then dont peek in my garage and see my Deville and McKenzie scouting duo.  I do use them. yep, but we're talking about npc builds... and noone ever accused you of being in your right mind afaik...
Bolt Thrower Posted Jan 7, 2014, 7:49 pm	musashi_san said: *Snipe* said: musashi_san said: its true you dont see mckenzie's or devilles in the wild, but that makes sense, who the heck would drive that out there? they're race cars. Then dont peek in my garage and see my Deville and McKenzie scouting duo.  I do use them. yep, but we're talking about npc builds... and noone ever accused you of being in your right mind afaik... If I ever get a Deville, I will turn it into a taxi and work it like Rev works his nuns.
*Rev. V* Posted Jan 7, 2014, 8:11 pm	Invest in quality kneepads......
Bolt Thrower Posted Jan 7, 2014, 9:29 pm	*Rev. V* said: Invest in quality kneepads...... The ones for tile laying are quite nice...
*Bastille* Posted Jan 7, 2014, 11:34 pm	musashi_san said: *Snipe* said: musashi_san said: its true you dont see mckenzie's or devilles in the wild, but that makes sense, who the heck would drive that out there? they're race cars. Then dont peek in my garage and see my Deville and McKenzie scouting duo.  I do use them. yep, but we're talking about npc builds... and noone ever accused you of being in your right mind afaik... If they are DRs for the race track that could work. Something non-lootable.
*Maxxed* Posted Jan 8, 2014, 12:31 pm	1) A trader bus ([possibly with rear mounted NG or MM.) 2) A tractor with either 2NG, NG/CGL, NG/PG or NG/HMG 3) A sedan or muscle deathracer with front,back and side weapons. 4) A ute(PU) that isn't rocket orientated - maybe with a side FT or front HFT 5) A muscle rammer NB: Unless the AI code is changed so that NPCs are more aggressive with drops they are almost a waste of a weapon slot.
Racing Robbie Posted Jan 8, 2014, 2:12 pm	OK - think we have our first solid idea shaping up - a tractor with ballistic weapons, seems to be the most popular idea Ideas/suggestions please Here’s mine: Wurzel 3.2Lv8 3 unit tank Two crew Two NGs and two reloads GG and MR Armour: F: 30 R:30 L: 20 Ri: 20 T: 10 B: 10 I like the sounds of a decent muscle/rammer for the NPC as well
*Rev. V* Posted Jan 8, 2014, 7:29 pm	"3. NPCs should have specs like Rapidshot/Rapidreload and (as JS has pointed out) - fire at ranges of more than 100 if they have Sniper specs" This would have to be implemented regionally so as not to throw balance off. For example, north of GW this would be a bad idea. It's tough enough starting out as it is. Having to have to fight specced slavers as a newb would be a bad idea.
musashi_san Posted Jan 8, 2014, 8:53 pm	Juris said: Then we could have NPC vehicles that dispense peds in combat lol this is brilliant. a bus with smokescreens/mg side, reram hft front, maybe dual mg's rear that parks and disgorges like a dozen or more peds would be awesome... sounds like a serious ai change though...
*Bastille* Posted Jan 9, 2014, 6:54 am	Maxxed said: NB: Unless the AI code is changed so that NPCs are more aggressive with drops they are almost a waste of a weapon slot. I found the Cacophony used drops quite well. Not sure if running in groups has anything to do with traders not using mines much.