Griefed by Shark/Studman
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SDC Posted Aug 24, 2013, 7:33 am |
So I was a casual Darkwind subscriber last year, and I recently came back after taking a six month break. After easing myself into it for a few days, trying to decide if I want to get back into the game, I decided that I was having fun. Even thought about renewing my subscription.
Then I ran into Shark / Studman during an arena match (Event #241556). I went in for a quick Deathrace, assuming I might grab a few skill points for my long-neglected gangers, and instead I encountered someone who seemed intent on deliberately provoking me. I won't bother rehashing the details of the short race - anyone who cares can check out the event above. Suffice to say, I've got two gangers in the hospital - some of their wounds from post-resignation gunfire - and I never fired a shot at him. Maybe I would have, if I had expected that kind of toxic behavior, but by the time I realized what he was doing it was too late. This is my first post on the forums - and it saddens me that its one where I'm basically just griping about a negative experience. I appreciate the game for what it is, but I can't deal with this sort of thing. My life is already stressful enough without dealing with what amounts to an internet troll who enjoys frustrating people by deliberately destroying things they've invested time into building up. You can call me a whiner, if you want. Or say that I'm too thin-skinned. Or maybe I'm just a 'baby', like Shark/Studman implied in the Lobby afterwards. Regardless, I'm probably bowing out again. Knowing me, though, I'll just end up hopping back on in another few months to give it another try. I'd like to thank the players that helped me get started last year - although you'll have to forgive me if most of your names escape me this long after the fact. Saint Crispin, Lostsoul214, Krash, Sarge, and a few others. I'm sure you know who you are. |
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*Boonwolf* Posted Aug 24, 2013, 8:34 am |
Can't let the few bad apples spoil the batch.
Payback time if you ask me. Consider yourself lucky not to have been redded out like I would have been by certain gangs. |
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lostsoul214 Posted Aug 24, 2013, 8:37 am |
From what I've seen. I'd have to agree with you. There was no reason for the treatment at all. Sad there are people like that out there. | ||||
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Sarge Posted Aug 24, 2013, 11:26 am |
Yeah that sucks, man! I hope you get a chance to stick around and have some fun experiences.
The one or two people that make the game bad for others need to be weeded out - as we only have "community justice" due to the "unique nature" of Dark-Wind - this makes it a little more difficult. Thanks for posting about your experience and making us aware. Hope to see you around - IM me if you want a scout sometime! 
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BrassFactory Posted Aug 24, 2013, 1:57 pm |
I've been playing DW for a year and I've only once been the victim of anything like griefing. Like you, I lost no gangers. Not too bad for an anonymous unsupervised playground.
DW isn't for everyone. If you don't enjoy it enough to overlook some adversity, then you should quit. But if you stick it out, you may find that the adversity is a big part of what makes the game satisfying. One of my most enjoyable moments was seeing a veteran player grief a noob for cursing him in a deathrace. He gave the noob a chance to apologize and when he didn't, he killed his gangers. The guy quit the game (no loss) and took a friend with him (good player). Frontier justice. It's ugly but satisfying in a modern urban world without frontiers. |
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*Snipe* Posted Aug 24, 2013, 3:48 pm |
Honestly, Shark/Studman have both been away from the game for a long time. That was the first I have seen Studman on. Understand that there are players that play the game like that - but eventually they get what is coming to them and they end up leaving.
Don't let a bad player ruin the chance to get back into something you enjoy. Give it another shot - if Studman doesnt relent, then we have people that can make sure he leaves the game for a while again. Some of us players don't like bullies......... |
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Joel Autobaun Posted Aug 24, 2013, 5:03 pm |
Sharks back?
Good. Eff all ya all |
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*Rev. V* Posted Aug 24, 2013, 5:30 pm |
Word, Boo!
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Blackwill Posted Aug 24, 2013, 6:09 pm |
And then there's this. Why some people let their children access the internet unsupervised is beyond me. |
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*Longo* Posted Aug 24, 2013, 6:18 pm |
He wont be around for long. They will re-admit him to the mental hospital in a few days. Or maybe he was just out on a family visit.
He has done this before, and went away. I chased him all over the place. He is a coward. Dont let him bother you. And Blackwill, you continue to provoke. I don't know why. I'm your Huckleberry. 
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Blackwill Posted Aug 24, 2013, 6:37 pm |
It's what I do, Longo. Professional Provoker. And, who better to provoke than Joel, the uncontested King of the Potty-Mouths?? | ||||
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*Brunwulf* Posted Aug 24, 2013, 7:10 pm |
I agree- it all adds to the spice. If you want a cuddly-wuddly gaming experience, go to: www.secondlife.com Hope I get to lock horns with the infamous Shark myself- when my Wife/kids/boss allows me the time to acyually start playing properly again! |
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Joel Autobaun Posted Aug 24, 2013, 7:23 pm |
I get accused of all kinds of griefing in this game - you people deserve a real griefer. Might give you some perspective. Go shark go! |
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SDC Posted Aug 24, 2013, 8:56 pm |
Look, I can understand that Darkwind is a harsh and sometimes unforgiving game. On my first scouting mission, I lost four cars and seven gangers. I was disappointed, but I didn't complain about it. I sat down and studied the forums for tips, and I asked folks for advice. I learned how to scout better, and joined folks on other, much more successful scouting missions.
Later, I lost two of my veteran gangers to a new player in an arena event. It wasn't intentional on his part - he was just too new to know the difference between an active car and a resigned car. After the event, I explained it to him, and he seemed genuinely apologetic about firing an HMG into my resigned car until it exploded. Again, it was disappointing, but it happens. This, though. A player who exists for the sole purpose of deliberately ruining the experience for other players is something that defies my understanding. I go out of my way to be as civil as possible to people when I'm on the internet, and this fellow seems to be the exact opposite - someone who goes out of their way to be nasty and inconsiderate. And, from what I've seen, its impossible to really fight back against him because he comes and goes at random. He doesn't maintain any real gang presence, and instead uses arena vehicles and rookie gangers to mess with people who - in many cases - just don't know any better until after he's already torn them up during an arena event. He doesn't play the game to play the game - he plays it to make people angry. I find that to be disgusting behavior. Its the equivalent of someone who stands around on a basketball court, just waiting for the chance to get their hands on the ball so they can throw it on the rooftop and ruin the game for everyone else. And the fact that there are some folks who seem sympathetic to his position is disheartening. Not surprising, I suppose, given that this is the internet. But, like I said, I don't want to invest time and effort into a game, worrying that at any second someone with little to no investment will just rush in and kick over all the pieces I've carefully built up. If Studman/Shark/Whatever had made his intentions to fight clear from the beginning, I wouldn't have said anything. I would have exchanged bullets, and taken my lumps. I've fought other players during arena events, generally with the understanding that a resignation should be respected. But this was something else entirely. This was deliberate misdirection followed by deliberate and pointless cruelty, and it has (at least temporarily) ruined my enthusiasm for what is otherwise a fine game. |
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*StCrispin* ce.services.mh@gmail.com Posted Aug 24, 2013, 8:56 pm |
In the words of Charlie Brown "good Grief" |
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Blackwill Posted Aug 25, 2013, 12:05 am |
Welcome (back) to Dark-Wind. You'll meet a number of these ass-hats in the game, if you choose to remain. These kinds of games attract that sort of crowd, from time to time. The cool thing is, when they do it to you once, you know they will try to do it to you again...and you can just open up on them first the next time. It may take you a while to get to the level where you can compete, and actually red out their annoying gangers, but that time will come. Heck, I still haven't gotten there yet, but I keep trying Aster was a good example...he was an intentional annoyance, and he was hunted in every event he was in, until he had to move to the far side of the map to avoid being redded, and then just dropped (as near as I can tell). Joel, Necrotec, Awefensive Enterprises, Lion Cheetahs...these are the same kind of players, except that they have bigger guns and better gangers. Dishonorable, annoying tactics are their stock in trade...but a few of us are fighting back, and we will eventually red them, or at least make it less fun for them to keep up with their shenanigans. It just depends on how many assets you are willing to lose in order to show them that ^%$#-heads eventually lose out..
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JS Posted Aug 25, 2013, 12:23 am |
This person is an alt of one of the established long time players. Would be interesting to know which simpleton it is. But they get their little laughs and believe themselves oh so clever. So it is unlikely we will know who. Best thing to do is ignore it all. Even making a forum post about it is what the sociopath wants. In the past, when we stopped talking about it that person went back to their other persona and we didn't have to deal with this tripe for a while until their little ego got deflated too much and they had to come back and grief a few more people. Then they get their name in lights and start to feel better about their smallness, their lack of importance and the futility of their existence.
Probably still smarting form the wedgies and "bullying" they encountered in grade school. Hopefully they don't buy a black duster, make some you-tube video about their manifesto and make a list... Alas, only time will tell. |
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Blackwill Posted Aug 25, 2013, 12:50 am |
Which one is the Alt? SDC or Shark/Studly Men???
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*Boonwolf* Posted Aug 25, 2013, 1:11 am |
One little tip When asking for a NPC only truce IDK or we will see is a red flag. Always get a solid answer be for giving LoF.
I could see him lining up his shot 5 turns be for he opens fire. Got to keep your eyes and ears open when your around other players. |
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Blackwill Posted Aug 25, 2013, 1:25 am |
Yeah..this was an obvious set-up. As soon as he hit the brakes coming around that turn, I would have slowed, E-braked, and brought front weapons on him....and THEN asked him "Do you wanna play nice, or do you wanna die right here??"
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*StCrispin* ce.services.mh@gmail.com Posted Aug 25, 2013, 4:30 am |
Griefers of the Shark variety WANT to make you quit over it. I would rather you stayed, SDC. Plus it gives those of us who like to be jerks, a reason to be one in a positive way! I enjoyed redding Aster, and blowing off his gladiator's body parts, until he promised to stop being a sshlong to ppl after they resigned.
The best way to greet a Shark, is with a Heavy Rocket into his breach. |
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BrassFactory Posted Aug 25, 2013, 5:27 am |
Nobody is sympathetic to the griefer, SDC. But I find it hard to believe you can't understand how there can be evil people in the world even though you try to be good. Take a tour of your local jail sometime.
You just happen to have touched on a couple of DW themes, that's all. Joel is glad the griefer is around so that people will see he's not a griefer by comparison. That's not the same thing as being sympathetic. Blackwill is glad the griefer is around because he can paint Joel and his buddies with the same brush. That's not the same thing as being sympathetic. Both of them will happily red Studman if they see him. Bottom line is that if you stick it out, you'll find that a random griefer who shows up so rarely that he can't be retaliated against will hardly be noticed. And when you and your gang are a bit more experienced he won't find you an easy target if he does happen to run into you again. |
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*Bastille* Posted Aug 25, 2013, 5:34 am |
probably didn't get any wedgies at school, they would have better sense then. Other than that, I agree. Griefers are very rare. I would not let it bother you. They are no different from the AI, just another name. |
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Joel Autobaun Posted Aug 25, 2013, 5:49 am |
SDC even if this was a living game and not a dying one , you'd get told to suck it up buttercup and don't get mad get even.
The developer has spent many hours coding this game into a little pink carebear paradise, nothing can be done except possibly banning studman, if you can prove he is abusively griefing you. It has never been proven. This is an inherently PvP game and you just a have to deal with that. Stay out of town events if it damages your psyche that much to have some ones and zeros blasted out of a database. Scout in the wild with carebears for feel good all the time, with occasional hate for uncaring AI whom are exactly as brutal as shark plays. |
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SDC Posted Aug 25, 2013, 10:48 am |
Honestly, I don't think I'd want him banned for his behavior. It might pose a brief inconvenience, but there would be nothing stopping him from just making a new account the next time he felt like messing with people who don't know any better.
Besides, I'd rather know him under his current name, so I can be careful to watch out for him in the future. And goodness knows I'll be watching. |
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Blackwill Posted Aug 25, 2013, 2:53 pm |
That's a good attitude. Just red him if you see him again.
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Joel Autobaun Posted Aug 25, 2013, 4:54 pm |
yup |
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FireFly Posted Aug 25, 2013, 10:30 pm |
Just for the record, the "there are bad people" analogy is pretty bull####ty and nonsensical.
A very small minority, only the most psychopathic criminals out just randomly go "Hmmm, I'm going to give everything up to kill this one guy here right in front of everyone for the lulz!". It makes no sense, even less so in a world were everyone has a gun and would love a reason to shoot someone. Crime needs a motivator, only a psychopath commits crimes simply for the sake of doing it. Throwing characters away to kill other characters makes no sense at all unless you can find some sort of reason for it, random or targeted killing simply for the sake of killing is complete nonsense even in the context of DW, exactly what we define griefing to be. Being opposed to it is not carebear, it's common sense as the act in itself lacks any sort of sense. It goes against basic survival instinct and all that jazz. |
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Blackwill Posted Aug 25, 2013, 11:19 pm |
While I would love to agree with you on this, FireFly, I can't.
In the real world, you may be correct...only those who are truly twisted enough, or disconnected from reality, are likely to act this way. Everyone else, it is assumed, has something very real to lose, or a sense of morality which compels them to act within the confines of societal acceptance. These games, however, are different. From my own personal experience, I have seen players, who have no emotional connection with their digital playthings, throw caution (and consideration) to the wind, and do things which they would certainly be hesitant to do (at the very least) in a real-world environment. The very reason we have a term "griefing" stems from the fact that this kind of behavior is commonplace in a digital environment, and not at all rare. I, myself, have no personal attachment to my DW gangers...and don't really care if they are killed or not. I will throw them willy nilly into the mix, and chase down and attempt to annihilate those whom I see as a threat or an annoyance. And, were I even a little less moral, I might even do it to players who "don't deserve it", just for kicks. And, I can assure you that there are plenty of players out there who are less moral than I am, and who do this kind of thing simply because there are no real-life repercussions They do it because they can... |
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BrassFactory Posted Aug 25, 2013, 11:31 pm |
Again, go visit your local jail. It is possible that you don't actually know as much about human nature as you believe. | ||||
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FireFly Posted Aug 26, 2013, 12:11 am |
Black, that was my point really... So when someone tries to justify things as "Bad people do bad things" that does not make sense at all. It's one of those very clear lines between artificial player behavior compared to any sort of logical one.
I'm not saying everyone should care for their characters, I really only see them as numbers/time invested with some backstory to them but the thing I'm pointing out here is that there is no RP justification for doing what a griefer does, even if they try to claim so. Point is, nobody who actually cares about the broader scope and health of a game comunity would think it's a good idea to encourage random acts of killing "for the lulz"... It's not how the real world works and it's irrational and just because a minority of people thinks it makes for a better, tougher game does not mean they are correct. Real life has laws for a reason, most of us think they are a good idea. Games have rules for a reason, this is normally also a pretty good idea, unless you're the one who likes to do things at the expense of others for no other reason that to cause grief. Brass pretty much nobody would commit a crime for no good reason, any sane person requires a motivation strong enough to overcome their self preservation instincts. This is one of the core human instincts and the very thing a psychopath in this case might lack. A visit to a prison wouldn't really provide any useful insights, it's hardly a good environment to judge the sanity of a person in. To find someone willing to do what the "griefer" does in game, you'd need a person whom wants to die and also wants to kill a few people before he does. You'd need complete psychopaths and while they exist we don't have a lot of them that would go that far. |
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BrassFactory Posted Aug 26, 2013, 12:21 am |
No offense meant, Firefly, but I wonder where you live that you can say such things. Where I live, we have whole gangs of people who do exactly what you describe. I've had the pleasure of meeting them and looking very closely at what they've done, as well as discussing the motivation.
What's the motivation? They actually like griefing. The real life version...they have very little empathy and they enjoy personal power which they feel when they inflict pain. Are they sane? I'd say so, but reasonable minds can differ on the point. They also organize themselves in gangs and inflict pain as a group. They identify so much with the group that they will die for it or do things you would consider irrational, such as killing another man in a situation in which they will certainly be caught and punished...sometimes with death. Now I'll happily admit to being a noob in DW. And I'm not trying to justify any behavior in DW or any other gang. But I'm afraid bad people really do bad things even without the apocalypse. |
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RudeReality Posted Aug 26, 2013, 12:26 am |
The motivation for a player to be a griefer is simple...to gain attention through infamy. The logical response is to deny them that which they seek by not elevating said person by making them the topic of discussion. Unfortunately, this is contrary to what is required to rid oneself of those being an obstacle to a fun game environment, which is to spread the word about the perpetrator so that he faces a "posse" of guns pointed in his direction wherever he shows his head. This alone is enough for some to continue in this antisocial behavior. Sad. | ||||
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*Bastille* Posted Aug 26, 2013, 12:32 am |
Prison life is probably a good analogy.
We live in a near lawless society. Anyway, to the OP; play the game, enjoy it, don't let this change your decision to sub if you like it (the game). The situation is very rare, if you want it to be. If you like this sort of thing, theres plenty of room here for that too IC. Carebear, not carebear, its the difference between being a player and a player character. The discussion forums are for sane discussion, the RP forums are for PC interaction. |
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*goat starer* Posted Aug 26, 2013, 9:59 am |
He's in Scandinavian. They all sit around politely sharing pickled herring whilst listening to abba. |
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Blackwill Posted Aug 26, 2013, 12:53 pm |
Oooh...I love pickled Herring. Abba...not so much. No offense, FF. I know they are national heroes
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BrassFactory Posted Aug 26, 2013, 2:20 pm |
Abba is great. They're the Beatles of disco. | ||||
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Sarge Posted Aug 26, 2013, 2:30 pm |
+1
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FireFly Posted Aug 26, 2013, 2:56 pm |
Look man, ABBA are sort of what the desert is to people who live there, we don't talk about it
That aside, it's not that I don't understand the gang mentality you are talking about nor would I dispute the fact that some people find joy in hurting others but it's also a matter of scale. It's true that said people would quite possibly be willing to kill for their honour or respect, or whatever word you want to use but this is actually quite consistent with what I said before, the motivation and group pressure is there and they are actually quite sure they can get away with it due to the rather low tolerance for snitches in those areas, and they do get away with it. It's not quite the same as pulling suicidal stunts in high profile areas, it's almost never gang bangers that are responsible for senseless mass shootings or suicidal terror acts is it? Deep political or religious reasons are normally behind things like that and the kind of people you describe are not actually willing to take those sure-suicidal odds. |
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Blackwill Posted Aug 26, 2013, 3:28 pm |
There is still this digital shield, though, which offers a modicum of privacy and anonymity to those players who, for whatever reason, get a kick out of griefing.
I've seen it in too many games, too often, to believe that it is a rare occurrence. Even "good people" will sometimes resort to "bad behavior" if given the chance to do so with relative impunity. This may be the case with Sharknado, or whatever the guys name is... he hides behind his digital wall, and enjoys throwing rocks over it. |
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BrassFactory Posted Aug 26, 2013, 8:23 pm |
It's true that religion and politics sometime motivate people to self sacrificing violence. Although most folks who strap a bomb on and blow themselves up take that route for other sociological reasons as well.
But you are dead wrong that gang members who don't hold those values act violently only when they think they won't get caught. Recently in the most secure housing unit of the Los Angeles central jail two members of the Mexican Mafia tried to kill a man with spears made of razor blades and rolled up magazines. They did it on video in front of sheriff's deputies knowing it would pretty much guarantee their conviction and life sentences on pending charges. They didn't do it for politics or religion. Trust me, there's some bad knrl going down outside of Scandinavia and it ain't all insipid pop music. |
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FireFly Posted Aug 26, 2013, 10:00 pm |
Well that's a different environment there, if they're in a high security jail and likely to stay there for a long time it's not really the same as if they were walking completely free.
If by doing what you said they could improve their status and well, ease of living within said jail it's not an illogical action, just a dumb one. |