Braindump Draft 1, my thoughts so far, please discuss
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*sam* Posted May 23, 2012, 9:59 am |
DESCRIPTION
Game Title: “War on Wheels” Fundamentally a sandbox/open-world game driven by an economic/political engine which is influenced your actions. Randomised initial conditions and economic/political events, to enhance re-playability. To include a single-player story-driven campaign also. Three towns from the Darkwind world: Somerset, Elmsfield, Gateway Truckstop. Wilderness travel plus a deathracing league and arena combat league in Somerset. A video trailer is essential. Run thru the core features of DW and talk about what will be different/better in the new version. Ideas here would be appreciated Overview of Darkwind's core strong points and uniqueness. A few screenshots. Links to backstories (as nicely formatted PDFs), reviews, RPS interview etc. This needs to establish my credibility. Also give my own background and development history. Steeped in old-school roleplaying games (Ultima 7) and simulation-driven games (Civilization). DW players have been talking about a singleplayer version for a long time, and for a more professionally packaged version that doesn't tack together a game client with a web browser. The game engine used for Darkwind (Torque) is past its use-by date, so we are definitely looking at a complete re-write using a new engine, bringing forward all of the learnings from the last 7 years in terms of gameplay and combat system balance. Quotes from exiting DW players, especially on how much I let them get involved in the game's evolution. Testimonials from players targeted at specific things I want to highlight: intense tactical dogfighting combat where position, momentum, terrain advantage are all critical. What else should we include here? As a singleplayer game, we're not handcuffed as we are in an MMO in terms of everyone having to progress and never lose much. The wilderness and the deathsport leagues can therefore be made much more challenging and with a more well-designed difficulty curve. Why I think the time is now better than ever to work on a turn-based vehicular combat game.. the gaming public has evolved in the past few years, and turn-based 'retro' style games where depth and replayability are more important than AAA graphics. Needs a few top-quality pieces of artwork. At least one that is not in-game footage.. gives impression of quality. How about a commissioned piece involving a cute/tough tank-girl type character posing beside a musclecar with a red desert backdrop? (yeah, sex sells). This character can become a core part of the single-player campaign story http://alexasrosa.deviantart.com/gallery/?offset=24#/d38rktu http://akizhao.deviantart.com/ HEADINGS! - done as graphical banners - “Sounds very ambitious?” - “Why do we need your help?”. I need to point out that even with 100% requested funding, our own development time is only being partially paid for. How a lot of things we'd like to do will make the game more fun but which are not 'core' to gameplay and would be hard to do on a more limited development budget. Development *time* is another factor – unfunded, the project will be relegated to a lower position in our schedules. - “Why should you care?” - “Turn based car combat: what?” It's unique, and it's cool. There is no other game like it. Give a sketchy development timeline.. (in Wasteland 2 they called this 'How all of this is going to work') - A clear and specific answer to "How will the funds be used?" is a necessity.. be open and transparent - headings suggestions appreciated.. ADVERTISING DW lobby, DW website DW newsletter – 2 or 3 times during the campaign Posts in Facebook and Linked In identify people who are related to the cause on Twitter, and ask them to (re)tweet about it Mars Defender etc. newsHUD Personal contacts, including press contacts (Dan G., Nicholas, Bytten, DW press distribution list, anywhere that has reviewed or done a feature on DW) – give them a press release and ask them to help spread the word. See the 'Who can we promote this game to? ' thread on the DW indiegogo forum Late in the campaign, consider Google Ads in places like videogamegeek. REWARDS IDEAS: NOTE THAT THESE WILL BE ADDED AS THE CAMPAIGN PROGRESSES, RATHER THAN ALL AT THE START - Digital copy of the game when it is released on Desura/Steam $18 - Digital copy of the game plus access to alpha/beta versions, and private forums where the game development is discussed and influenced. $35. (Note: this is how Darkwind has always worked, and it really does work as a development approach). - Digital copy of the game, alpha/beta+forum access, plus you supply the name on a tombstone and supply an obituary to go with it, in the Somerset graveyard in the final game (subject to approval), OR you name an NPC gang/character in the game (subject to approval). Limited number of NPC gangs, first-come-first served. $65 - Digital copy of the game, alpha/beta+forum access, plus exclusive signed poster and a 3-month subscription to the Darkwind MMO $70 - Digital copy of the game, alpha/beta+forum access, plus you name an NPC character and our character artist will do a portrait of you from a photograph to use on the character's in-game stats sheet. $180 - Digital copy of the game, alpha/beta+forum access, plus a DRM-free collector's edition boxed DVD and manual of the game, plus 'tales from the wasteland' printed novella set in the Darkwind world $110 - Digital copy of the game, alpha/beta+forum access, plus exclusive signed poster and an exclusive LIFETIME subscription to the Darkwind MMO $200 - Digital copy of the game, alpha/beta+forum access, plus exclusive signed poster and an exclusive LIFETIME subscription to the Darkwind MMO, plus a 4-day holiday with me in the west of Ireland at a mutually agreeable time. I will pick you up from Shannon or Galway airport and will pay for transport and accommodation within the country. Activities to be agreed on, but likely to include pubs, hillwalking, cycling. $3000 Run an incentive program for the first 5 days that offers limited edition perks for early contributors. For example, pick a duration of time in which the $50 perks are available for only $25. STRETCH GOALS These should be added as the campaign moves along, rather than all at the start, in order to keep people interested Character Personalities Engine – your digital minions will have psychological/social profiles and there will be roleplaying events (personal relationships, soap opera type stuff) beyond the 'battlefield psychology' already planned. NEEDS FLESHING OUT. Extra character artwork- 3D and 2D. Localisations: French, German, Italian, Portuguese, Spanish. More towns from the Darkwind world, with accompanying wilderness maps: Badlands Truckstop, Texan, Sarsfield, Morgan, Firelight, Shantyville. More deathracing leagues in the other towns, with accompanying racetracks and arenas. More vehicle types. Mutants + Psionics More platforms: Android, iOS (with reduced graphics quality and completely re-designed user interfaces), Linux Extra story-driven campaigns beyond the initial one. User-developed scenario editors and an online repository for them, with discussion boards. LAN/WAN multiplayer play (on individual scenarios rather than a persistent world) FAQs FAQ section needs to be seeded at the start and kept up to date as campaign runs UPDATES Regular updates (2-3 times per week) are needed to keep people excited and something to look forward to. Updating the reward tiers constantly also add value to project, and give people who are on the fence a push. |
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*Tinker* Posted May 23, 2012, 3:01 pm |
How about Peds and how they can carry stuff from one car to another etc.., and creatures. Relationships between peds was something you talked about doing too, a long long time ago 
how about how things get fixed are you going to need just cash, or are you going for a more scav approach? |
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Ender Card Posted May 23, 2012, 3:15 pm |
Ok some thoughts:
I would sell up the fact that there will be a story driven tutorial for the single player version which will slowly in a user friendly way introduce them to the mechaniacs and depth of the game. I think a few people were overwhelmed with the mmo, bit loved the idea of the game. This will lure those people back, and anyone else that was on the fence. Next these two rewards seem odd. Are they mutually exclusive? Because I want both. LOL - Digital copy of the game, alpha/beta+forum access, plus you name an NPC character and our character artist will do a portrait of you from a photograph to use on the character's in-game stats sheet. $180 - Digital copy of the game, alpha/beta+forum access, plus a DRM-free collector's edition boxed DVD and manual of the game, plus 'tales from the wasteland' printed novella set in the Darkwind world $110 |
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BWGunner Posted May 23, 2012, 3:21 pm |
That's a lot of thoughts. I'm quite glad to see you headed this direction, Sam, I've said for a long time that Autoduel deserved to be a franchise, not an MMO.
Perhaps fleshing out the backstory a little more? "Since the DarkWind swept civilization away survival has been its own currency, and you may be the richest person in the world...since you're the only one you've seen in 5 years. But there's a glow on the horizon you've been following, whispers in your mind of a place the survivors have gathered. The last person you met called it Evan, just before you took his boots, and his life. You've found it, and others have too. It's no Eldorado, but the roar of engines tell you it's not far from for a grease monkey like you. But that smell, they simply must do something about that smell." Something really simple that outlines the basics of the idea, the single player POV, the desolation post-apoc, the focus on survival and automobiles. A touch of humor. |
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BWGunner Posted May 23, 2012, 3:26 pm |
To dig a bit deeper, I think you can always do well with a hint towards a deeper story. We've talked about this in the past with some ideas as to the political ambitions of a Mutant Nation versus an ancient tech-hoarding Brotherhood versus the upstart combat league. There's something hidden that makes this starting place important, some hold it, others know and want it, and yet more just are pulled to it by the clustering of resources, so few and rare everywhere else.
The above sort of narrative puts the character in the role of one who has stumbled into a deeper story, and finds himself a pivotal character to the fates of the major powers...whether he likes it or not. Gandalara. |
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*Tinker* Posted May 23, 2012, 3:32 pm |
This!
My favorite game from the 90's, Sundog It had the greatest repair system i've ever come across What's needed is a bunch of parts that can be salvaged after battles, that you can use by dragging them in the slots that are damaged Would be great if there was a bunch of different skill under the mechanic skillset, that would increase each as you fixed different components individually, and a all-encompasing "jury rigger" that helped should you partially fail the repair. As for parts, i'm scratching my head, only thing that comes to mind is inner tubes and springs atm lol |
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Ender Card Posted May 23, 2012, 3:36 pm |
Some other stray thoughts.
When talking about the virtues of the game definitely mention several times the similarity and inspiration of Car Wars. I think it would help to Talk about the depth of gang management and how each of your gangs has perks and vices that reveal themselves (if you’re keeping the MMO design, which I love). Making the comparison to X-Com design in that you recruit, train your men and they gain experience and become deadly, but the wasteland is a deadly place, and you will lose people you’ve grown attach to. This will get the Car Wars fans drooling because it IS basically Car Wars on Steroids. I also thinking emphasizing that the game is about players choice is also a important selling point. Do you want to do random stuff, or story, do you want to manage a fleet of cars or just one. Do you want to create your own camp, discover the side quests, customize your vehicles or use standard load outs. Making it clear that players can choose the systems they want to explore in depth and the ones they can largely ignore will appeal to a greater range of players. Such as the open world where you can enjoy arenas, scouting, building your gang, and have a story driven campaign (with interesting side quests) you can engage any of these things at your own pace. Feature Request: allow players to rename their gang members. That’s going to be a big one in my book, and fits the X-Com draw. I think also mentioning the depth of vehicle customization with weapons, equipment, armor, tires and decide who will drive will wet some peoples appetite. Also talking about how the plotting system movement system and TBS elements. I personally like that it’s a deep and involved planning and thinking game, verses a reflex driven game (but I know not everyone likes that description) |
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Ender Card Posted May 23, 2012, 3:44 pm |
Edited: more ideas!
Are you going to consider doing what Xenonauts did with setting a kickstarter verse indigo? I think the volume of pledges will far superiour on kickstarter! Also I would consider adding a 1 month trial access to the 35 pledgers. This could probably boost your MMO population quite a bit, and possibly/likely result in resubs once the trial ran out. Its a great draw, as its a low risk amount to the pledger and they get immediate value for their pledge! Another question: Would you consider using this as your new overall engine for the MMO as well, or would that be a seperate project? Also be clear in the FAQ to mention that any rewards including access to the MMO are not fufilled till the kickerstarter closes |
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Juris Posted May 23, 2012, 3:54 pm |
Your timing is excellent - STJ is apparently bringing back CW because the Ogre kickstarter hit its stretch goal. As you know STJ is now apparently committed to doing an Ogre computer game because of another stretch goal... Wouldn't be surprised if they don't do another Autoduel eventually.
As you have pointed out - the thing holding CW back was the math - how it took 8 hrs to do a single combat, etc. I know you said you talked to SJ once before, maybe it's time for another chat... Especially since a CW kickstarter with the SJG name on it would probably bring in a lot of money. |
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Ender Card Posted May 23, 2012, 4:01 pm |
I in theory agree. However, thats a delicate edge your on. He may see Dark Wind as intruding on his turf and ask for extreme licensing fee and actively work to block the release of this. Its worth looking at, but I would be careful to say something like inspired by, and tread carefully. |
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Ender Card Posted May 23, 2012, 4:23 pm |
Oh and in case my volume of posts didnt convey this…I’m very excited! 
Also very impressed with how solid your research was on the kickstart strategy, you clearly get the mechanics of how it seems to work as far as motivating pledgers....much better already than Xenonauts (currently sitting just under 100k and 18 days to go)! |
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BWGunner Posted May 23, 2012, 4:43 pm |
SOrry, I'll stop spamming this thread after this.
Obviously you have support from a broad group of dedicated players. Might I suggest starting a few new threads? NARRATIVE: a discussion about what the story should be. The hook, the deeper threads that tie it all together. STRUCTURE: What kind of animal is this Single Player experience. What's the major areas of "play"? What's the real point, building a character, a car, an army? DAY IN THE LIFE: I'm going to sit down and play 6 hours of this game. From high-level, what's that like? What things might I do? INFLUENCES: It might help guide discussion to nail down a few major inspirations. Some just the usual, MadMax and whatnot, some more specific like "I like how Deus Ex handles the linear/open game world etc. |
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Greenbolt Posted May 23, 2012, 6:17 pm |
Based on the few projects I have followed on Kickstarter and donated to..plus chatter...
The things I see as absolutely critical: An PR /advertising blitz already to go when you start the project. Target popular websites/forums/webzines etc and have them onboard to talk about you at the beginning and then again half way through the project etc and at the end. Have clearly defined stretch goals that are placed appropriately so that people know why they are contributing more..and excited about getting there.. Having a video that shows not just DW footage..but some teaser of what you can do with the new engine..so they know its definitely doable. Then have some updates that you can provide through out the kickstarter project period to keep people involved and thinking about it (so they are excited enough to tell their friends) And most importantly make sure you keep in mind the price of any 'rewards' + kickstarter/amazon fees etc..to make sure if you goal is met..you actually have enough funding cash to do what you promised. I know you mentioned most of these and sorry if this is spam. (side note I decided to back http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1684781151/legends-of-eisenwald purely because there video introducing the game got me excited. Check out how they did it. ) |
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Ender Card Posted May 23, 2012, 6:37 pm |
Talking about how long you've been around with the MMO and the highlight the reviews both based on the most rave and the most mainstream sources will be a sure way to get some weight and added validity to the project. I agree knowing your engine will help, Wasteland 2, didnt, i think that is generally a anomoly. I dont think you need a sample per se since you have a existing engine and work portfollio, but having a proof of concerpt with the new engine...say... halfway through the kickstart will definetly amp up interest. 
I think your draft is actually pretty complete, minus a few points raised. I think you could start moving forward and fill in many of the suggestions/fleshed out ideas as you go. Gives people a reason to come back, see more progress and up the interest. |
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Wodin Posted May 23, 2012, 11:44 pm |
I'd buy! Blimey that puts pressure on me now though! If my design does anything if it has given Sam a push to start his SP design then I'm happy.
The call out for a single player car war style game has been shouted out across forums many times over the years. Their is a fair sized audience out there, from wargamers to Car Wars players to racing simmers (to a point) to sci fi lovers and people who love Mad Max films. We've had plenty of games of cars with guns but they are all from a sim perspective and realtime which is cool but not what I really always wanted nor do I feel that racing game mechanic suits a game of vehicle combat DW gets it right and makes the game far more tactical, more a thinking mans game than a reflex hollywood screen explosion of a game (if you get my meaning, Gas Guzzlers for instance). I do know sadly alot of the response I get when I show them DarkWind is I'd play it if it was single player. On first look it seems like a good little thinking mans car combat game (a very good one indeed), only if you delve deeper does it become apparent that actually it's a whole world be created and living out there. DW really is some feat. Quite astonishing when it hits you how much depth the game has. Which for me is sadly hidden away from many players who just don't want to play multiplayer games and if they want to deathrace say they want one there and then, not in seven mins time. Things like that the impatient gamer of today has no time for. Sad. I remember waiting 45 mins for the tape to finish loading Elite on the BBC B and never really thought about it, unless it crashed near the end, then I would be very annoyed indeed. Yet I even find myself getting impatient because the browser is a second slower than normal etc etc. So it would be fantastic if this game was released as a single player game with similar RPG elements, finally people will see what an amazing game design\idea it DW is. I imagine DW online subs will go up as direct consequence aswell. Good luck Sam. I'd be donating the day you put it up!! Infact it will be my No1 kickstarter backing project and also the No1 game I'd most looking forward too. Sam I notice you mentioned about a girl and sex sales. I will say this recently whenever a female character in a game has been shown in skimpy clothes etc etc there had been a backlash. Your also appealing to maybe the older gamer on the whole, that sort of Anime\Manga or even many fantasy art pics show women as sex and titillation/Personally I'd try a different approach, a more adult approach than alot of games do these days, I saw a FPS with a supposed mercenary who was female wearing hardly anything whilst in a shoot out..where really I imagine her either one in clothes she could have blended in or have protection on like bullet proof vest etc. I suppose if she is supposed to be a dolly bird in an advert for a DeathRace would be fine but considering the injuries the drivers add up I wouldn't have a sex kitten who is a driver. |
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*viKKing* Posted May 24, 2012, 6:27 am |
Darkwind: War on Wheels 2 I think it is better to present it as a sequel or a continuing experience of an existing product. Hence, insisting on the "2" seems rather important to me.
This is excellent and really introduce the universe. Just a point though. I would set this sequel or whatever it is called in a different place than Evan. You would also avoid any reference to existing towns. Introducing new game mechanics and stuff would better work with a new land to explore, new towns, etc. even if they do are similar to current ones. During alpha ages of DW, I mentionned to Sam there could be a sequel with new areas to explore, mainly north of Evan, which rather uncharted so far. Evan could still be referenced as a mythic place to inhabitants of this new "world", a source of mythology and society: "we do this because they are doing it this way in Evan dude!". Also, I think players shoud be more considered as gipsies instead of towns citizens. Let them start from camps and move toward cities to participate in races, etc. There could different kind of camps as well, some based on mobile homes or fixed barracks, providing a better technology. But I need to write this down on the paper. |
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FireFly Posted May 24, 2012, 10:43 am |
Vik, like this?
From the legends of evan comes tales of giant commie goats and fireflies slaughtering stuff... 
Anyway, I'm not sure how much DW footage you'd actually want to use, the looks are very dated to say the least, if you are going to sell this it will have to be on concept and ideas alone. By the way... quotes from players, I've got a good idea for that. It involves anyone willing with a mic and audio editing. It would probably look better if it's a community made thing rather than something put together by Sam himself. (Such small silly things can count sometimes... and community made has a nice ring to it) |
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Wodin Posted May 24, 2012, 3:48 pm |
I can see where your coming from by putting 2 at the end, however I'm not so sure. As this a really going to be a different experience to DW being based on single player it's going to attract alot larger audience than the currnt DW fanbase. Also DW by a vast majority will be unknown. Putting a 2 after and saying it's a sequel in this paricular case maybe more detrimental than positive. Most will think to themsleves the've never heard of the first and they will go straight to screenshots and discount it off hand, sadly. It's shame a majority of gamers will check graphics first over gameplay. I just wouldn't want new players to see the name f the game and the first thing they do is go check screenshots of the DW before actually reading about the game and what it's features will be. If DW had been a massive hit thats well known (yes it should be I know) then you can make a play by announcing this is a sequel. Your a massive fan of DW so saying it's a sequel would be a huge plus where to many it would mean nothing.
A fresh start I feel would be best. You could say in the description it's based of DW, and by that time they would have already read about the new game and what it will entail. I know I'm not an expert with DW though I've been around awhile so I can view it from a newbie perspective. |
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*Rezeak* reecestensel@hotmail.co.uk Posted May 24, 2012, 4:39 pm |
I agree with this actually. |
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Juris Posted May 24, 2012, 4:49 pm |
Yep - doing a 'sequel' to a known game like Autoduel on the other hand... 
Not that you should be 'ashamed' of DW - it is definitely part of your resume and cred, but calling it a sequel to DW - we'll all know it's a sequel without being called a sequel (Wasn't Fallout supposed to be a sequel to Wasteland?)
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*viKKing* Posted May 24, 2012, 5:33 pm |
I got the point. I'm not in god's secret, and don't know Sam's goal more than you.
Anyway, while "advertising" it seems necessary to me to propose screenshots of the upcoming so called "sequel". It must be presented as a whole. What do you think of "single player extension to DW"? while I'm not even sure it is only a SP game? Sam? |
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*Rezeak* reecestensel@hotmail.co.uk Posted May 24, 2012, 5:46 pm |
Worried about the MMO, but excited for the new project. Haven't figured out which one overrides the other yet. |
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Wodin Posted May 24, 2012, 5:57 pm |
I was under the impression this would be single player and DW will be the online multi player game.
Maybe later he will add a new multi player component to the new game that will take over from here using the new engine. Could be the expansion or maybe a standalone? |
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Wodin Posted May 24, 2012, 6:00 pm |
As you have to be based in America to start a kickstarter (though Xenonauts got around it) Sam may have to think of some other crowdfunding source. Trouble with the other one was that peoples money is taken from their account when they first bid rather than when it reaches the target. Thats something I'd be wary about to be honest. | ||||
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BWGunner Posted May 24, 2012, 6:54 pm |
I think all of this points back to the most important elements being Story, Art, and Mechanics. For this phase I think you need to identify and nail down whatever YOU think the 3 most important things are to generate and legitimize a substantial increase in funding over the original DW.
You did it by yourself (cough) before, so why do you need money to make what should be an easier and simpler game (in most people's minds single player is infinitely easier than MMO) so what are you spending their investment on, huh? Artists, writers, and developers to accelerate the timetable and ensure quality, that's what. Now, if you want to demo how it's going to be, make sure it impacts like this: http://www.hawkengame.com/ and not like this: http://www.mmorpg.com/gamelist.cfm/setView/videos/gameID/694/videoId/2437 The demo and "tour" in MWO is terrible and destroys the brand perception before anyone has a chance to say, "Hey, it's got a sweet upgrade system!" where Hawken just left me panting and squirming and wanting more. A major component of that was the music. Heck they could have done that with a simple Ken Burns style panning over still art and I would have been nearly as excited. It doesn't have to be drop dead 3D, it just has to be beautiful. Yes, sex sells, get sexy.That's not just a C-cup recommendation; music, art, a dramatic minimalist website, these all add up to sexy. Remember, it's what you hint at that turns people on, not what you show. viKKing is right. Don't put this in Evan, put it on the Isle of Mann and make it smaller, easier to understand and completely explore, and filled with awesome cars...and motorcycles. mmmmoooootooooorcyclesssssssss.... But again, what's the point? Grow the player? Mod the car? Win the circuit? Start at the end. |
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*Tinker* Posted May 24, 2012, 8:03 pm |
Yeah |
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Ender Card Posted May 24, 2012, 8:31 pm |
I agree with this generally, though i think showing them the legacy system and that the old one is in the process of a remake will show people what the old baseline was, and i think that select shots of the vehicles, gangs, and vehicle management would be interesting depth to pique interest, |
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Iron Wraith Posted May 24, 2012, 10:53 pm |
How about a sex kitten with one leg?
Seriously you can put women in the game without them being objects. Think Pink. Definitely girl, definitely striking/sexy, probably more than you can handle. Put on a jewelled eye-patch and you are done. That I think is a good image for a woman in the game. In touch with her femininity, but quite capable of ripping you a new one. |
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Fifth Posted May 24, 2012, 11:53 pm |
This. Easier said than done, but the character can be either male or female. Sex-kitten advertising would turn away female players, who are becoming more and more a part of the gaming community. But here's the thing - I don't think guys notice when an advertisement is using NON-sex-kitten poses. At least we can experiment and see what happens... |
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*StCrispin* ce.services.mh@gmail.com Posted May 25, 2012, 5:27 am |
No, Fallout was not a sequel to Wasteland. Wasteland has a sequel, but it was so poorly done that they quickly tried to distance themselves from the fact and Hid it under a non-wateland sounding name and removed the title "Wasteland" from it. Fallout was "in the spirit of" and drew alot of it's supporting background and naming conventions from it but was not a sequel or related to it in any way other than a hinting of it being the "same world" type of thing.
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Karz Master Posted May 26, 2012, 2:40 pm |
@Sam that's a good start. You have more or less touched on the aspects that need to be available. Organization should be the next step. As a KS member who's backed around 20 projects, and who is currently managing a list of KS projects with good potential on the GOG forums, let me share my thoughts on the importance of organization of information on consumer psychology.
When I look at projects, the first thing that comes to my mind is, 'why should I care?' That first impression when the reader opens the page must immediately give him/her a subliminal idea of what to expect. As you mentioned, pictures and concept art are good. Use these to your advantage. Put up pictures of roadkill, collisions, etc. When people post about these KS projects without any elaboration, I usually click on them, then quickly scroll through for any images, before reading the descriptions, and finally watching the videos. Having an image that's thematically relevant to the impression you want to convey to the reader, overlaying the video before you click on the Play button, is also a very helpful tool. See: http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/2066438441/haunts-the-manse-macabre Notice that, upon visiting that page, the first image I'm greeted by is the video overlay, and when I scroll down, I immediately get a very nice screenshot. Unless you're Brian Fargo or Chris Avellone, putting up an honest and modest but still appealing screenshot is the first step. Everything else comes next. Another way to get people to take us seriously is to have funding momentum. I mean, I'll be honest, no matter how nice a project looks, if it's on its 2nd day and I only see $40.00 pledged, chances are, I'm not going to give a toss. So, when the KS project is up, we should all pledge simultaneously. This project should at least hit $10000 by its first day, to show people that this is something to be taken seriously. Of course there have been projects of dubious nature raking in tons of money, but that's not the point; thing is, a project that's got some good funding momentum will usually be more attractive. Also, it's good to link to Darkwind, but Sam, I don't think you should spend more than 2 paragraphs on it. To me, I find reliability in developers who have stable and appraised track records, but I will feel turned off by people who keep telling me about how great their previous games were, especially if the gameplay will be different from the predecessors. It's why I didn't back Shadowrun Returns - because there was never a TB Shadowrun video game before. Wasteland 2 was therefore more 'trustworthy' in that regard. So, again, tl;dr version on what a potential backer might do when he clicks on the link: 1) Initial impressions: checks out top few pictures and images to get a rough idea of the project first. The reader must get into the spirit of, 'Oh this looks interesting' 2) Visitor reads on, likes the premise and the concepts and ideas of the game that's to be made. 3) Scrolls down, looking for more screenshots, there are none, but he likes the concept art, and the elaboration on gameplay and track record reassures him. 4) Watches video. A good video conveys reliability. |
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Groovelle Posted May 31, 2012, 9:19 am |
Interesting. One thing to consider, should there be a mode in the singleplayer that lets players turn off permadeath for certain/all their characters? Could you capture more people willing to throw down if that's an option or do you think it would dilute the game experience? I could see someone wanting to create themselves and their friends in the game without having to recreate them when they die or suffer from having them be killed. Or will there simply be a way to revert a battle if it goes south? Save feature maybe?
That aside, I think the sexiness from the Darkwind females should come from the toughness/willingness to get their hands dirty. It's the difference between Evony ads and exploring sexuality in hostile environments. Take, for example, the best picture of a female soldier I've ever seen: 
She's good looking, but there's something about the pose, the angle, the uniform, the hat that just makes it appealing. So, like a Michelle Rodriguez-type character(Fast and Furious, Battle: Los Angeles, S.W.A.T.) more than an Evony ad. I remember seeing a thread on one of the gaming forums about a picture on the Wasteland Kickstarter. They were commenting on how inXile had a tasteful woman in the picture, how it was appreciated. So, maybe a character based on one of the models you have now with an eye-patch, smudges from oil on her face, ripped button down shirt with body armour under it. She'd be holding an AR-15-like rifle, maybe have a pegleg, and have the grim facial expression of a soldier who's seen combat. Something that actually says something about the game. |
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*viKKing* Posted May 31, 2012, 10:40 am |
Israelian defence forces... |
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*sam* Posted May 31, 2012, 1:07 pm |
@Groovelle: yep, that's the sort of 'sexy' I had in mind (as you'll see from the Tank Girl reference and image link in my original post). 2000AD sexy: cute but tough as hell, not cute and ridiculously scantily clad. | ||||
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Ender Card Posted May 31, 2012, 1:18 pm |
It was nice for SJG to give a shout out in his kickstarter for another project that paid homage to his work http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/847271320/ogre-designers-edition/posts/237459?ref=email&show_token=99fe3ac79c58131e
Steve is sort of in a class all by himself. He may have less territorial than I thought |
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Ender Card Posted Jun 5, 2012, 3:38 pm |
One more thing i can think of. Each kickstarter gets a blub if you're browsing the avialable projects. So for instance for xenonauts only this shows for the blurb.
"A blend of turn-based ground combat and strategic command, Xenonauts puts you in charge of defending the world from alien " I would make sure the first sentence is very powerfully reflective of what you are doing. As this is what people browsing projects will see. Something like "Dark-wind is a post-apocalyptic open world/sandbox game where you manage a gang, customize and salvage vehicles armed to the teeth (think Car Wars on steroids), and explore a violent world of political intrigue!" or some such... I'm inclined to suggest adding something about turn based and rpg elements to grab those wasteland fanatics. |
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Ender Card Posted Jun 5, 2012, 4:07 pm |
Speaking specifically to this point
"Run thru the core features of DW and talk about what will be different/better in the new version. Ideas here would be appreciated " I think focusing on how the game will move you through the depth of the game with a tuturial, to ease players into the depth of the game. That it will have a open world setting with a single player story that the player can tackle at their own pace. Immerse yourself in the story, or just explore the world and come back to the story as you choose. That the game's broad depth is designed to fit individual play style and interest. Players can dig deep and customize and manage their areas of interest, allow the game to automate areas players are not interested in managing. The choice, or the choice not to choose
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Karz Master Posted Jun 6, 2012, 12:39 pm |
This! I can't stress how quickly I gloss over projects that don't have an interesting blurb. A good, descriptive blurb conveys confidence and sells the product. Whenever I see a potentially good game with a lousy blurb e.g. "John's Mansion is going to be an epic fantasy game!" I have the urge to smack the developer with a glove. Vagueness must be done away with; be specific! |
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Ender Card Posted Jun 7, 2012, 7:34 pm |
Hey Sam,
Anything you need help with or input on to finalize moving forward? I see a few other overseas projects have moevd over from indego to Kickstater, I'm guessing thet're starting to offer some guidelines on how to do that by now, but willing to do footwork if needed
David |
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*Longo* Posted Jun 8, 2012, 2:06 am |
Sam -
My thoughts and questions - It looks like KS or fail. At some point ya gotta be driving a lorry with a ram, smashing into stuff! There has to be a FT in the game at some point, whether driving one or fightin one! Will this new game have an ending? Can you win? Or will there be only so much you can do in the storyline, and after you do this, you can still hang out and DR etc until something new is added to the game? |
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*goat starer* Posted Jun 8, 2012, 8:31 am |
will she sleep with wallabies? |
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Karz Master Posted Jun 8, 2012, 8:58 am |
What about modding capabilities? That would be pretty cool. The DW vets can also chip in to open a mod repository. |
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*sam* Posted Jun 8, 2012, 11:13 am |
Thanks for all the input :-)
I think this will probably require some kind of demo - I have been starting to work with viKKing on doing some maps in the Shiva game engine |
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Ender Card Posted Jun 8, 2012, 8:20 pm |
Several indie kickstarts have been successful without it, raising 50K plus. You also have the MMO client as a sample demo to a degree. so in absolute terms, you really dont need a demo.
However the more you can show, even if just a movie mock up of what it will look like helps and wets the appetite. Increasing the percentage of funders willing to participate. So i can see why you went that way. You could also start shortly before the demo is ready. That would be a really nice boost and update for those on the fence. Having regular updates seems to help a lot, also surveys on content can help, but when thinking stretch goals just use the survey to give you a guideline of audience priority, but stick to making the low cost updates first and harder goals later. Keeps the early momentum going and helps maintain excitement. EDIT: Also I like the idea of meaningful titles of the pledge levels. Like for 40 You get access to beta and title something like Dark Wind Core Team, and for $100 you get access to Alpha and the chance to influence design as your team implements the game, and of course the boss title of Darkwind Design Consultant! $1000 gets you executive producer credit, etc. Include custom forum badges for their pledge level, make the experience fun for fans and create incentives for fans to complete amongst themselves for bragging rights. I already telling people about this, describing it as Mad Max meets Car Wars on steroids! That certainly hit a spot with my friends, at least
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Karz Master Posted Jun 9, 2012, 5:06 am |
I have no one to spread the word to, other than on the GOG forums. All my RL friends are new-gen gamers 
edit: Come on Karz, you should know better than that - Wolfsbane |
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Jake Nikodemus Posted Jun 26, 2012, 6:19 pm |
I guess I don't get it. I'm sure a rebuild on a new platform would be just super, but I am a bit confused. Is the new version going to be a hobby or something you want to make money on? That is the most important question, IMHO. Will this game cater to a vocal minority in an icy forum, or will it be a endeavor geared toward profit? I believe a good build will have to answer that question first. I have already pledged my financial support with my subscription, and would be willing to purchase a version of the game. But pledging? Is this PBS?
There has been a great deal of work done on this game to make it awesome, and I appreciate and salute this. I can't wait to see what sam churns out next. I do not mean to be untactful, but this version should have turned enough profit to build the next version. Perhaps the next build will not allow so many gamers to be chased away by an intolerant few, who threaten to take their ball and go home if the developer doesn't cater to them. Or perhaps lessons could be learned in less arbitrary rules that reduce the strategic options. I guess I'm saying: what is best for growing the player base is best for profits and the game. I think decisions about game rules should be looked at through the prism of a profit motive. Ok, now send the flechettes. -Jake Just meant as food for thought, not to upset anyone. |
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Karz Master Posted Jun 27, 2012, 3:41 pm |
I don't think Sam makes much money off Darkwind. Supposing there are 50 concurrent subscriptions (which is a mighty generous number) every month, with an average of, say, 4-5 euros per person, that's around 200-250euros a month. If I'm not mistaken, that's roughly the rental price for a good dedicated server every month. | ||||
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Iron Wraith Posted Jul 3, 2012, 8:34 pm |
Is this still going? | ||||
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Karz Master Posted Jul 4, 2012, 3:49 pm |
It better.
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Ender Card Posted Jul 14, 2012, 3:08 pm |
I know its going to take some time for Sam to get that demo together...but I'm curious how progress is going as well. I've been pimping this one on boardgamegeek. A few individuals sent me mails when it might happen. | ||||
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*Rev. V* Posted Aug 15, 2012, 7:06 pm |
"cute but tough as hell, not cute and ridiculously scantily clad. "
If she was a nun from Cestus Dei, she could be BOTH.... So, now that that's settled....
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Ender Card Posted Sep 20, 2012, 8:54 pm |
So any update? Still moving ahead. I keep checking kickstart to see, if this one pops up, and I get side tracked by obsidian. Updates please, my wallet can't keep this up!
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Vroomhoff Posted Sep 24, 2012, 4:26 pm |
I think getting the word out is the best thing you can do. Both for this version and for any potential sequel. Think of it this way: If you do a Kickstarter, even if it fails, you will definitely get more publicity and will most certainly attract more new players to the current game.
The two primary gaming news websites that I follow are www.pcgamer.com and www.evilavatar.com. I think the MOST IMPORTANT step is to make sure the word gets out to as many places as possible. Certainly there are fan publications/websites for table-top games? Be sure in any description you post of the game, you drop the "physics" buzzword. I would never have found this game on Greenlight without that in the description (since I was too sure I wouldn't find anything with "car wars" or "autoduel" in the title, for some reason). |
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Ender Card Posted Sep 24, 2012, 5:50 pm |
I also think having a working demo is optional. Really this is the demo, the next iteration is going to be what the funding pays for, as a single player game. Having a few screenshots of what it WILL look like is good, but having a playable demo isnt required, because this is the demo!
I will say, be realistic in your estimates in cost and time. That is important in keeping the faith with your backers for future products. Tackling it this way, will boost this player base, while getting funding the new game. Obviously one of the stretch goals will be to have the MMO portion also be connected to the new engine. Get a half million and dangle that in front of fans, I think that will cause a burst in interest. Especially if you sell up the increased interface usability and tuturials to ease players into the depth of Dark wind world. Also scale some of the depth. have portions be automated, so players can pic and choose the depth they want to engage in |
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Fealty Lost Posted Feb 11, 2013, 5:31 pm |
It's time for a complete re-do.
Firstly: lose the radiated planet thing. Make it an NBC ending to the world...with "forbidden zones," and a thriving new populace, with real cities of medium pre-apocalypse size that can support a Car Wars style set of leagues, so that a player could spend his entire game life within the televised world of death races, amateur nights and racing...garner sponsorships (NPC and player!) and never have to see a sand dune. The online PvP possibilities are through the roof! 10K to Unlimited! Car Wars was all about arena events! Interactive arenas with sliding walls, raising random surfaces...turrets!! The vehicles need to be of a size that you can see the gangers within and they must be modeled with animations; steering, gritting teeth while firing, etc. A 'drop-in' option, so as the turn starts, you can get a FP view, with switchable sight options so you could look left, right, rearward towards a threat, etc...see the weapons firing and watch the strikes against the enemy. Then a player could zoom out to get an oversight of the fight, input actions, etc. This option would also make being a ped a riot. What fun running around an arena after your vehicle gets shot to pieces! A random map generator. A screen for laying out the parameters. Size of hills, if any; water, roads and type of surface...basic types-desert, verdant, combination, etc. The replay factor goes through the roof...there's none of what DW has now... "Oh hell...Acid Lands!" Fortifications. Player-built camps. Seperate "scouting" and "camp" crews that would man static weapons, allow for "mad max" style encounters and combination camp-defense/vehicle combat. Random "ruins" of all types and "loot" levels. Nothing more exciting than driving along and the ground collapses and you fall into an underground military facility...or a shopping mall! Real town defenses so you can attack them if you want to and play the bad guy! Town "memory" so you can't shoot them up one day and expect to drive in the next and trade/resupply in your custom-skinned Apaches. Town militias that actually patrol. Town populations that actually farm outside the walls...gather water...require guarding.... Dynamic town matches/races/death races with interactive gambling/participation. Definitely don't go without a demo...start it with a newbie ganger entering his first death match...winning, moving up the ladder, getting his first sponsor...looking to defeating "Frankenstein," or some such nasty uber-killer...then switch to the interior view of an Apache launching over a dune and landing, guns blazing at an enemy in the wastes...seeing your .50 rounds rip into the armored side of a Lorry...just as a Buzzer tops a rise above you, the maws of a pair of CC's pointed in your direction as the escort arrives to save the day! Doom on you! The demo will make the game irresistible. I mean, look at what "WarZ," inarguable the WORST game ever made and what they accomplished with in-game demos...they made MILLIONS with a completely unplayable gank-fest of a nightmare game. ...consider the possibilities. |
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Tonic Posted Feb 11, 2013, 7:30 pm |
They did this with XCOM to great effect. In the new title, the game sometimes zooms in on a character, giving you a dramatic camera angle on what he's doing, before resuming the usual isometric view. It adds immediacy and excitement to the somewhat cerebral turn-based gamestyle. For starters, anytime a car's wheels leave the ground, animate that from a worm's eye view. Show vehicular explosion replays from a high, circling angle before zooming in on the tangled wreck. When a car strikes an obstacle or other car at 30+ mph, zoom in for the replay. Just make sure the player can hit a key to skip it. We get impatient waiting for ballistic weapon animations. |
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Fealty Lost Posted Feb 15, 2013, 12:04 pm |
Groovelle...as soon as I figure it out, I'll post up the sexiest picture of a female combatant in the world...
...think...black jeans...serious ass...with an M4 slung across it. Real world girl. Oh ya...no "farmable" maps or increased chances of certain vehicles showing up in certain places. Totally random enemy spawning. |
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PsychoDellick Posted Feb 3, 2014, 4:54 pm |
I'd love to make some decent suggestions but you have an extremely dedicated and seasoned community here who know precisely what they're talking about.
I would just like to add this, and I appreciate it may not be news to you. Dark Wind is completely unique. Car combat games are all too often console-tarded affairs that require no more attention or dedication than picking your nose. My first love of car combat was revealed through Interstate 76, a game with a rich and unique backstory and that allowed the player a hand in the design of their car - and looting But there has never been a car combat game that combines gang management, RPG elements, economics and persistence. All good things, I hasten to add.
Darkwind has all of this, and more. There are no games like it. It absolutely must exist. Perhaps 'proper' developers are afraid of something that requires so much care and attention, but for one reason or another, none have seen fit to formalise what is a worthwhile and excellent gaming experience. Cars and guns - its such an obvious recipe, yet they have all failed except Darkwind. On that note about development, I'm kind of glad. I'm not sure I'd trust anyone to get the job done but someone who has not only created, but actively nurtured this lovechild. With a 'proper' company I'd be too paranoid about them scrapping ideas or selling out to imbeciles to expand their player base. If I were a rich man I'd bankroll the whole operation. But I'm not, so the most you'll get from me is about thirty quid - as much as I'd have paid for a damn good game back when you could buy them off the shelf with confidence. The only thing I have ever wanted from Darkwind was a single player variant. A sandbox, if you will. Maybe, dare I say it, a save feature. I appreciate that flies in the face of what many would call the spirit of the game, but not everyone in the world wants to do things the hard way. If you do consider a single player function of the sequel, I would ask that you examine Pirate games (hear me out). Games like Sid Meier's Pirates!, Port Royale, and so on combine RPG and crew/ship management with exploration and persistent worlds that change as various factions vie for control of the map locations. Not unfamiliar concepts. But they also have a single player thread that involves, say, a search for relatives or revenge or something like that. It can be picked up or ignored as the player desires. If someone wants to doss about looting and blowing things up, they can. If they want to follow the story and 'complete' the game, they can do that too. But completing the story doesn't necessarily end the game. As you are already looking at more random events, roleplaying events, and things like that, I don't think it would be too great a step to add that thread for a single player function. I would also like to second the suggestion that you at least discuss this with Steve Jackson. If he's going to cramp your style, he will do so anyway just as soon as he cottons onto the sequel, so talking to him will only clear the air and I would not be too backwards about reminding him that 'big' developers have never taken on a project like this - you meanwhile are holding all of the relevent experience. This game is your resume, Sam. You deserve to be recognised for keeping his original idea alive in a medium that is accessible and painless (except when your best gangers burn to death in a horriffic ambush). My worry about the 'official' CW game is that it will cow-tow to groovy buzzwords that blow chunks out of its enjoyability, in the vain hope of securing a bigger player base. Darkwind has never been for everyone, but the number of people who I know are into car combat games but have never heard of it is astonishing. A lot of 'new generation' gamers will be put off by phrases like 'turn based' and 'economics'. Let them be. They can go and pay through the nose to play a game that thinks they're as stupid as they really are. The new breed are not all retards - the rise of indie development has seen a lot of new ideas and open minds coming to the fore. Many are ####. But if nothing else, that wave of proposals is crowbarring public opinion open to all sorts of things. Above me someone suggested arbitrary angles for "cool shizz" in-game, a la XCOM Enemy Unknown. If your camera is free roaming as it currently is, don't bother with this feature - its annoying, and obsolete, and if you do include it, have an option to turn it off. If players want to have flashy angles, they can make their own with a free roaming camera. It might not be anyone's first impulse, but to me that's part and parcel of the 'player driven' game play. Your tech demo could make use of the free roaming camera to show how good the game can look if people bother to use it. I also think Darkwind was onto something before a lot of big-wigs were, in player-designed content. And this without the Steam Workshop, no less! Player designed skins and decals are just a good idea, and the more things like that you can throw in for the community, the more it will grow. If Kickstarter is a problem, Desura is a bit like Steam but seems to have cornered some of the more obscure gaming proposals. Games do not need to be completed to be listed there and you might benefit from it - there's also Steam Greenlight to consider if you wanted to test your pitch? Sorry, much of that probably didn't need to be said. I'm no games developer but I've been a gamer my entire life. I have very specific wants and desires and I know what there is too much of. Darkwind 2 doesn't have to TRY to be cool just to get some sales. It just has to be. If you engineer the accessibility, the community, and the potential for growth, everything else will take care of itself. You should also answer the question asked earlier, about whether this is still a hobby, or an enterprise. I don't think you need to pick one or the other, but veering too far to the hobby side will isolate the game as DW in its current state is, and veering too far to the enterprise side could mean compromises and loss of identity. In my humble opinion, if there's one thing DW has going for it at the moment, its a truly unique identity. No CW MMO is going to threaten that. The Car Wars game will be competing with things like World of Tanks. Are such adversaries worthy of Darkwind? |
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*sam* Posted Feb 3, 2014, 7:52 pm |
Thanks for the thoughts :-)
Regarding DW2: things are happening :-) Not exactly along the lines of what we were discussing here, though. I do appreciate your comments about DW's uniqueness in terms of turn-based vehicular combat. I very much think this myself, and it's the core experience that I want to build DW2 around. |
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Skoaly Posted Oct 3, 2014, 5:42 pm |
One of the main things that turn me on most about a game is the amount of customization I can do with my toons and their related gear. That being said there has only ever been another computer game out there that has captured my attention to the level that DW has... and that game is APB:Reloaded. Other than that it has always been table-tops. Games like Warhammer, Necromunda, Warmachine, where my artistic side can run wild.
I would very much like to see DW2 retain and possibly exceed it's current level of customization. In fact my thought was somehow implementing a neck-up profile pic of the 3d model used for a custom skin. That way you can better identify them at a glance... same goes for the vehicles. Not sure if this is possible but it would greatly enhance the game for those of us that are graphically minded. I'd also like to see more "models" or perhaps a way to "add-to" those models with different hair styles, gear, weapons, and what-not. Jagged Alliance did something similiar to this with their re-do. When you changed something on the toon, it registered on the "head" display. For me personally, I like knowing that my gangers are individuals that aren't long-term numbers crunchers but part of a bigger story. A plot behind a plot if you will. I think that initially starting with one toon during the "get-to-know-you" single player phase and being able to customize both their looks and their stats would be epic. Then as time progresses that toon you started out with becomes the de-facto gang leader... perhaps by earning some sort of leadership trait during the initial single player phase. Now granted they could potentially die, or you could recruit someone better... or perhaps they could start a family, raise little mechanics and drivers etc etc.. Still retaining and gaining/losing stats & abilities through the "pairing". |
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Crazy AL Posted Oct 3, 2014, 10:08 pm |
The Last Stand
This game has some very fun qualities and would be a great example of what peds could do and be like but in a turn-based game of course. |
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HawtPotSoup Posted Oct 8, 2014, 7:37 am |
improve the graphics slap on a new title and call it dw2.
jk I would like to see current subbers get their prem duration transfered to dw2 when it does come out though. also 3d map of evan! |
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Tallus Posted Oct 8, 2014, 2:56 pm |
One nice feature would be better/moddable audio.
Thinking about it, the character voices added a lot to Jagged Alliance 2, both by bringing the 'toons to 'life,' but also, as I think about it, as an improvement to U/I -- their responses and cues helped figure out where you were in the turn cycle, etc. |
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Skoaly Posted Oct 21, 2014, 5:49 pm |
Agreed! I bet you'll get enough interested players that are willing to do voice-overs gratis... Just gotta put together a script of what they could say given a particular event and skill/trait level... just like the interactions with the NPCs now.. The brave ones, "Pfft was that supposed to scare me?" The not so brave ones, "I just wet myself!".. The brave ones to the not so brave ones, "What's that smell?" The not so brave ones to the brave ones, "Sorry, I didn't mean to. Honest! It's the cargo I swear!" Heh Heh |
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Ryslock Posted Nov 4, 2014, 8:29 pm |
I'd be kind of interested but the second you mentioned 'single-player' my interest nosedived. Pretty much any single player game, even stuff like Mass Effect and Tales of Maj'Eyal only lasts me a couple weeks - the multiplayer aspects I can play for months. Same with vaguely DW-similar turn-based games like Bloodbowl.
AI just is never as interesting as a human opponent or team mate - even when the AI is extremely capable as in AI Wars - it's getting other players into a game that takes it from good to awesome. There is no amount of lore, background and shinies that will keep my interest as much as challenge does. What makes DW is the multiplayer aspect which creates most of the stories and lore - even if you solo scout, there's still other players around and you know it even if your main interaction is the market and lobby chat. Take that away and it's all rather dull despite the relative complexity of the physics and combat systems. Would so much rather see DW re-engined and UI rebuilt with the gameplay left intact, since it works very well. Graphically it's *still* fine imo. Mechanically the engine is outdated, sure, a lot of elements still need tweaking and some bugs squished - yet the concept is solid. Permadeath: As soon as you feature that in any kind of game you automatically lose some types of player and gain others, some which be fanatical - I see this as a good thing. Most of the rage from permadeaths here is usually because of the stupidity of it - scout failure (position or quantity), bad planning and bad luck. Usually needs 2 of these to potentially see breaches and injuries. Carelessness causes it all on it's own and lead to many of my gangers getting killed in the first couple weeks xD The way it's implemented in DW is just perfect for my taste. You *can* take a bullet to the head and die outright, sure, but you can also get shot to hell and *still* be combat effective afterwards if your ganger is tough, lucky and there's a passable or lucky medic with you. |
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Tallus Posted Nov 17, 2014, 2:25 am |
One proposal to jump-start multi-player: would it be hard to allow players to take control of a single car on the bad guys team in a wilderness scout: e.g. I could sign up to "red team" a wilderness scouting event and, if I did well enough I could get the chance to keep the car or even the gangers.
This would certainly add a bit of spice to the park and bark routine: "dang it, that pho is running, and we didn't bring any muscle chasers. It'd certainly be a cool intro to the game for folks just out of the tutorial. |