*sam* Posted Apr 11, 2012, 12:03 pm	A rather excellent new wilderness map made by Bastille is now live - Chaos Canyon is on the road between Somerset and Gateway. Bastille has been very busy so we'll probably have a number of new wilderness maps and racetracks coming along in the next couple of weeks. Maybe even Morgan! Thanks Bast!!
Serephe Posted Apr 11, 2012, 12:07 pm	Map is nice but is the tyre damage still as bad as when I helped him test it?
Groove Champion Posted Apr 11, 2012, 12:26 pm	I saw this map today. It's a very nice piece of work and should be a very nice addition! I would have seen it more between Gateway and Badlands (in terms of terrain layout) but it should prove a tricky challenge for players used to the nice, smooth rolling hills of the safe North. Awesome work, Bastille! [EDIT]: I don't know if this is privileged information, but I'll ask anyway: is there any chance we could no approximately how far out from Gateway (or Somerset) this map is? I'd really like to play this one! A lot.
*Bastille* Posted Apr 11, 2012, 2:47 pm	Next couple of weeks! talk about slave driver (hehe, that is a complete and total lie) thanks sam, great to help out like so many others have great community, I hope you all enjoy the chaos. Thankyou for those that helped out testing and checking it out 80sthrowbacks snipe Serephe Groove Champion JD Wolfsbane for the awesome Tutorial, it wouldn't be possible without that ViKKing for all you assistance, I'll be working on your morgan maps this week. Sam for putting up with my craziness, and all the notes, and amazing patience with us all playing in your sand pit, you've created a fantastic game my good man. Heres to putting up with us for another 8 years. Did I miss anyone, hope not, thanks again :-) you make the process a pleasurable one. Now, go out and shoot each other. Groove said: chance we could no approximately how far out from Gateway (or Somerset) this map is? I'd really like to play this one! A lot. Theres a link to the world map.... Map of Evan
*Snipe* Posted Apr 11, 2012, 4:59 pm	I severely appreciate the time and effort you put to the game for us - all for your love of the game. New maps will help to revitalize the game. Anytime you have new material in the works I would be more than happy to check it out and give feedback....you know this. Also thanks to Sam for allowing these maps and incorporating them so quickly. As I think back to the past year+ I have seen a massive amount of added and changed content - and most from requests and suggestions from us. That fact is a strong factor to why I play this exclusively on my (quickly diminishing)free time. That is a major draw to me, and gives me the feeling that the game is evolving along with the players. Tell me one other game that has done the same - my mind is drawing a blank. Thanks to all that feed my addiction
*Splash* Posted Apr 11, 2012, 5:47 pm	Three cheers (and beers) for Bast! First new map (I think) since I've been here (2+ years), and I'm really looking forward to the first time it comes up, loads, and I say, "WTF is this? Now what do I do?"
*JeeTeeOh* Posted Apr 11, 2012, 8:43 pm	Saw this map while Bast was testing it. UNREAL!! Thanks to Bast for the effort and Sam for getting it installed. I echo what Snipe said before me. LOVE this game.
*Longo* Posted Apr 11, 2012, 8:57 pm	Can someone post a few pics please?
Juris Posted Apr 11, 2012, 8:59 pm	*JeeTeeOh* said: Saw this map while Bast was testing it.  UNREAL!! Thanks to Bast for the effort and Sam for getting it installed. I echo what Snipe said before me. LOVE this game. Morgan should be renamed to Bastille, especially if it's going to be a Red town.  Latte has an NPC gang - what did he ever do?
*sam* Posted Apr 11, 2012, 9:10 pm
*DoubleTap* Posted Apr 11, 2012, 9:13 pm	Hear that? That's the price of mortars going up after those screenies.
iIIyB Posted Apr 11, 2012, 10:59 pm	Just ran a travel with a 7L eaton, was an AWESOME surprise to see a new map in SS area, had no idea it was coming,i gotta start readin the forums!! That map looks like a ton of fun for scouting, but for travels it was "interesting". No slam on gas n go straight like most maps, really had to check speed n avoid the many many bumps. The AI had a very hard time stayin with me as well, but im sure this will be tweaked as we go. I think this map will really change up some play styles, VERY COOL BAST!! also i think i had the most live watcher to an unarmed travel in DW history If ya wanna see it :S453075 Thank you Bast n Sam for the updates, its a great feeling seeing new maps again!
Lord Foul Posted Apr 12, 2012, 5:48 am	Have large chassis like lorries been tested on this map? Looks like it would be difficult with all those bumps.
*Bastille* Posted Apr 12, 2012, 6:15 am	hehehe, hahaha HAHAHA MUAHAHAHAHAHA Good Luck I run Multiple lorries through this road often, so it will effect me as much as anyone. Have a good look about the map
Ragnak Posted Apr 12, 2012, 6:17 am	Just got done running through the map twice this evening. Awesome job Bastille but I was thinking the same thought as Lord Foul and I'm not sure how a Lorry would make it through. I'm not talking a mortar, "I'm a heapin helpful of death" kitted Lorry but one for travel and hauling. We might have to rename the map - Leave your Lorries behind.
Groove Champion Posted Apr 12, 2012, 6:22 am	Ragnak said: I'm not sure how a Lorry would make it through. Good. Maybe it'll "fix" the SS marketplace.
*sam* Posted Apr 12, 2012, 10:54 am	Yeah, I quite like the idea of having a map that forces people to defend their lorries rather than being able to escape them by running away. I always envisioned trade convoys as being slow moving things that had to be defended..
*Tango* Posted Apr 12, 2012, 12:28 pm	If that's how you want things to go there are two basic problems to make it tenable for players. Firstly the more CR we bring to defend a Lorry the more CR they bring to attack it. Secondly Lorry armor is pitifully weak. Lorries catch missed rockets like a battleship is a bomb magnet and it only takes a couple till there is a breach. Please take these facts into account before making any changes.
*Jagged Monkey* Posted Apr 12, 2012, 1:02 pm	Don't worry I'll try not to damage your lorry too much before I steal it from you. It's not good business.
*Bastille* Posted Apr 12, 2012, 1:20 pm	*Tango* said: If that's how you want things to go there are two basic problems to make it tenable for players.  Firstly the more CR we bring to defend a Lorry the more CR they bring to attack it.  Secondly Lorry armor is pitifully weak.  Lorries catch missed rockets like a battleship is a bomb magnet and it only takes a couple till there is a breach.  Please take these facts into account before making any changes. You should find it works both ways. Lots of things to hide behind too, even for a lorry. Just a different thought process. Or at least, that was my thought behind this.
Groove Champion Posted Apr 12, 2012, 9:42 pm	*Tango* said: If that's how you want things to go there are two basic problems to make it tenable for players.  Firstly the more CR we bring to defend a Lorry the more CR they bring to attack it.  Secondly Lorry armor is pitifully weak.  Lorries catch missed rockets like a battleship is a bomb magnet and it only takes a couple till there is a breach.  Please take these facts into account before making any changes. I guess products on the SS marketplace will now be worth their inflated price.
Groove Champion Posted Apr 13, 2012, 3:58 am	I just played an encounter on this new map: I like it a lot! It incorporates tougher map elements from the South into a Northern look. Jagged rocks will force you to keep your speed lower, so will uneven terrain and roads. There are also some very nice spots to snipe from, for those so inclined. Very nice, Bast!
*Ayjona* Posted Apr 13, 2012, 5:15 am	Internetz in abundance to Bast. Sam, what will become of this proud one man indie project, now that you seem to be gathering quite a large collection of skilled individuals around you? Is Darkwind in danger of going AAA?
d0dger Posted Apr 13, 2012, 5:22 am	I pretty much always have to defend my lorries anyway... not worry about this map at all.
*Tango* Posted Apr 13, 2012, 11:52 am	d0dger said: I pretty much always have to defend my lorries anyway... not worry about this map at all. It's usually faster to defend your lorry.  No problem with the map, I was referring to any additional changes.
*Ninesticks* Posted Apr 13, 2012, 7:19 pm	That map down south, craters or whatever it is called is, imo, a far harder one to run and defend lorries on in all fairness, and it is nowhere near as daunting as the maze like one between Texan and Sarsfield. Not saying those concerns are invalid at all, just pointing out that there are worse places out there to be taking a lorry through.
*Longo* Posted Apr 13, 2012, 7:40 pm	Hehe -- Lorries on FL maps anyone? heheh. I havent gotten this one yet, but cant be worse than those, hehe
FireFly Posted Apr 13, 2012, 7:40 pm	Longo said: Hehe  -- Lorries on FL maps anyone? heheh. I havent gotten this one yet, but cant be worse than those, hehe HFOJ's solve most issues on those thin maps if you can drive  The maze is by far the worst map in the game for lorries thou
*Longo* Posted Apr 13, 2012, 7:48 pm	FireFly said: Longo said: Hehe  -- Lorries on FL maps anyone? heheh. I havent gotten this one yet, but cant be worse than those, hehe HFOJ's solve most issues on those thin maps if you can drive  The maze is by far the worst map in the game for lorries thou Surely you jest? You just cant make some of the hills on FL maps in a lorry. Over the years I have lost a ton of A armored lorries with RBs.
FireFly Posted Apr 13, 2012, 8:07 pm	Longo said: FireFly said: Longo said: Hehe  -- Lorries on FL maps anyone? heheh. I havent gotten this one yet, but cant be worse than those, hehe HFOJ's solve most issues on those thin maps if you can drive  The maze is by far the worst map in the game for lorries thou Surely you jest? You just cant make some of the hills on FL maps in a lorry. Over the years I have lost a ton of A armored lorries with RBs. 8 or 9.4's? I'm not saying it's easy, I'm just saying that The Maze is even worse  The maze is the only map in the game I ever lost 3 lorries in the same event in...
Serephe Posted Apr 13, 2012, 8:29 pm	Wait, why is losing lorries a bad thing? Kaboom.
Joel Autobaun Posted Apr 13, 2012, 9:16 pm	Lost a lorry recently with mortars/ 5Lv12 and half a year of 3L rot/HCR production goodies...in acidland. It happens, if it didn't we'd all prolly barely lose anything.
*Longo* Posted Apr 13, 2012, 10:36 pm	Joel Autobaun said: Lost a lorry recently with mortars/ 5Lv12 and half a year of 3L rot/HCR production goodies...in acidland.  It happens, if it didn't we'd all prolly barely lose anything. I hate that. I remember once I lost a lorry and at the time I calculated the loss at 30 million based upon the market value of the goods inside. I think I quit playing for 2 weeks after that hehe.
d0dger Posted Apr 13, 2012, 11:00 pm	Longo said: Joel Autobaun said: Lost a lorry recently with mortars/ 5Lv12 and half a year of 3L rot/HCR production goodies...in acidland.  It happens, if it didn't we'd all prolly barely lose anything. I hate that. I remember once I lost a lorry and at the time I calculated the loss at 30 million based upon the market value of the goods inside. I think I quit playing for 2 weeks after that hehe. I have an emergency backup plan that's near guaranteed to save the lorry and it's load no matter what, but it does require their to be escorts in the squad.
Joel Autobaun Posted Apr 13, 2012, 11:55 pm	d0dger said: Longo said: Joel Autobaun said: Lost a lorry recently with mortars/ 5Lv12 and half a year of 3L rot/HCR production goodies...in acidland.  It happens, if it didn't we'd all prolly barely lose anything. I hate that. I remember once I lost a lorry and at the time I calculated the loss at 30 million based upon the market value of the goods inside. I think I quit playing for 2 weeks after that hehe. I have an emergency backup plan that's near guaranteed to save the lorry and it's load no matter what, but it does require their to be escorts in the squad. lol I'm actually quite insulted.  I had 3 including a tank gun on the lorry(which is usually enough on it's own.).  Only lost the lorry, escorts shot the fk out of all enemies.  Hard to manage starting on the slop and having fight a headon at close range.
Groove Champion Posted Apr 13, 2012, 11:56 pm	I played a second event on this map... The AI seems to have a hard time getting to me. I imagine this will improve over time as more and more events are played? S453522
d0dger Posted Apr 14, 2012, 12:14 am	Joel Autobaun said: lol I'm actually quite insulted.  I had 3 including a tank gun on the lorry(which is usually enough on it's own.).  Only lost the lorry, escorts shot the fk out of all enemies.  Hard to manage starting on the slop and having fight a headon at close range. Don't be, it involves an unusual setup and some sideways thinking. I actually discovered it on accident when I would have lost my lorry if not for it. You just haven't noticed/thought of it yet.
*Bastille* Posted Apr 14, 2012, 2:50 am	Road To FL, or any place you get a convoy caught on a hill, you are in big trouble! The Chaos Canyon place is a warm welcome
Lord Foul Posted Apr 14, 2012, 6:37 am	*sam* said: Yeah, I quite like the idea of having a map that forces people to defend their lorries rather than being able to escape them by running away. I always envisioned trade convoys as being slow moving things that had to be defended.. That's all well and good, but if you always envisioned this, why block the route between GW and Elms with an artificial restriction on large chassis? Those harder maps between GW and Elm are under utilized because of this restriction and if you want the player to defend their lorries, those harder maps will make this happen. Sure the profits are better selling to Elms, but the risk would be much higher trying to get lorries through those maps. Bast's new map is more in line with the "Broken Trail" maps between GW/Elms as the terrain he used fits them perfectly. While this new map will get used more, it seems out of place where it is now located. In my opinion, the artificial restriction hurts the player experience and forces the player to go around, use smaller chassis or avoid the area completely. Add to this that it's been said many times that Elms is under utilized, so if you want to breath new life into this area, remove the artificial restriction. It just might get new player and old interested in scouting, traveling etc.. in an area of the game that is used less than most.
Groove Champion Posted Apr 14, 2012, 7:01 am	I think it helps players understand the terrain they will face in the South. Also, it puts a bit of a kink in the profit margin of merchant-players who aren't skilled at fighting.
*Bastille* Posted Apr 14, 2012, 7:12 am	when thinking where this one would go I thought it would best suit that other terrain. Im glad to see it on the main road because people don't like that other road and it will be seen this way, and the challenges stated above, but I must say, I love the road between Elms and GW. Some of my most memorable scouts were on that road. "I have rockets on board" BOOM! What makes that road impossible for large vehicles is not that it is tight, i see it due to the deep sand on these constantly changing sand dudes. A little imagination needs to be used, but that is what happens in big sand dunes, the terrain is changing all the time as it is blown by the wind. You could say this about the road from Elms to SS, but there has to be some road there for large trade, I guess. I also like that this road is restricted ( I know, it does kinda contradict my earlier statement) but I see it as a shortcut rather than a main road. More shortcuts like this would be good imo. Could even be a great southern trail between FL and Sars, a real goat track where one wrong move could cost your life as you fall to your death into the ravines.
*sam* Posted Apr 14, 2012, 11:23 am	Lord Foul said: *sam* said: Yeah, I quite like the idea of having a map that forces people to defend their lorries rather than being able to escape them by running away. I always envisioned trade convoys as being slow moving things that had to be defended.. That's all well and good, but if you always envisioned this, why block the route between GW and Elms with an artificial restriction on large chassis? Those harder maps between GW and Elm are under utilized because of this restriction and if you want the player to defend their lorries, those harder maps will make this happen. Sure the profits are better selling to Elms, but the risk would be much higher trying to get lorries through those maps. Bast's new map is more in line with the "Broken Trail" maps between GW/Elms as the terrain he used fits them perfectly. While this new map will get used more, it seems out of place where it is now located. In my opinion, the artificial restriction hurts the player experience and forces the player to go around, use smaller chassis or avoid the area completely. Add to this that it's been said many times that Elms is under utilized, so if you want to breath new life into this area, remove the artificial restriction. It just might get new player and old interested in scouting, traveling etc.. in an area of the game that is used less than most. That's an interesting point. The reason we made that route restricted was mostly just to make it different; I wouldn't have any big problem changing it
Serephe Posted Apr 14, 2012, 11:28 am	I would actually prefer to see the SS/GW SS/ELMS routes restricted if anything, but it wouldn't really work out.
*goat starer* Posted Apr 16, 2012, 4:25 pm	*sam* said: Yeah, I quite like the idea of having a map that forces people to defend their lorries rather than being able to escape them by running away. I always envisioned trade convoys as being slow moving things that had to be defended.. surely making lorries a hell of a lot slower would have been the way to do this?
*Wolfsbane* Posted Apr 16, 2012, 8:32 pm	Serephe said: I would actually prefer to see the SS/GW SS/ELMS routes restricted if anything, but it wouldn't really work out. I can hear the screaming from here, and I don't even play any more It could have some interesting effects though.  GW would probably become the main marketplace for the big southern traders, with smaller/newer gangs reshipping stuff north in box vans. Could you get the same effect by making lorries massively worse on sand?