*Bastille* Posted Mar 12, 2012, 11:50 pm	use of HPs to bribe DRM at arena events. Used prior to event in the web page when signing up for event. Used when wanting to compete on the track without a compromised vehicle, when DRM rep is bad. Doing this via the web page means you cannot adjust your car for the event (armour amounts etc, normally adjusted in the client), there was no time after bribing the official. You're in the event, and we will turn our back to your past shenanigans, this time. There is a chance they don't accept the bribe, take your hero point and stuff your car worse (as they are now even more mad at you for trying to bribe them) could even negatively effect overall rep. a few negatives, bribing out of bad DRM rep would be fairly useful, these negatives may help prevent overuse. Using HPS this way, you may not be effecting the overall rep with a faction, just for a short period or individual instance. Maybe they could be used between other factions similarly. eg, trucing out of an encounter or similar; Overlooking actions
Serephe Posted Mar 13, 2012, 12:42 am	Instead of spending HP, stockpile them (with a cap to how many you can have based on fame, pos. rep) Decent fame, positive rep, and HP means you might occasionally get reinforcements from a gang friendly to the town. Or someone with a spec or two might ask to join your gang. Or they might point out a gang that has a nice big gun or vehicle that you could be interested in. Never liked the idea of the HP shop.
Fealty Lost Posted Mar 13, 2012, 2:25 am	HP's should be tied directly to your status with the world. If you hunt traders then the city around which you hunt them isn't going to want to give you good stuff so you can continue to strangle the life lines for an entire city so you can get 'good stuff.' As to the argument that rare items are 'game changers,' that's bunk. In a game in which the players have no effect on each other, who cares if the other guy has a cool McFly? It's just bragging rights. It's not like we live in a full-on PvP world here...so again, who cares? There should be a dedicated personal pop-up for you if you get HPs around a town which you have a positive relationship with. Neutral gets you nothing. The higher your standing, the better stuff the city sets aside for you because you're 'fighting the good fight' for them...and you get rewarded. No random lucky click on the shop: YOU get offered something the next time you check into the shop BECAUSE you earned HPs and are held in good esteem with the city. Ser', Bast', heck, most players here have great ideas how they could be used...but it should be tied into your game play and behavior.
*Bastille* Posted Mar 13, 2012, 9:20 am	tied into the world and game play is good
Necrotech Posted Mar 13, 2012, 12:55 pm	Rares for players.... Fealty is right, it's bragging rights, but overall a ganger is just as dangerous with a Pho or sunny vs McFly. PVP really only exists in SCL or events, and in SCL.. you see 2 vehicles... BPU's and Mercs. But tying Hero Points to standings within cities, Perhaps a friendly or adoring faction will for the price of favors (hero points) will give additional wares that are outside of the norm. For instance, a buzzer in GW, would be worth 250 points aka cashing in those favors. But at the same time, don't make it expected items, randomize it quite a bit, and *YES* only offer those items to players who earned it. The other thing about the standard markets..... for unusual items to appear for purchase, seems like.... market gaming or bot work involved. I understand there are alot of eyes, but seems.... too uncanny in some regards. Fealty Lost said: HP's should be tied directly to your status with the world. If you hunt traders then the city around which you hunt them isn't going to want to give you good stuff so you can continue to strangle the life lines for an entire city so you can get 'good stuff.' As to the argument that rare items are 'game changers,' that's bunk. In a game in which the players have no effect on each other, who cares if the other guy has a cool McFly? It's just bragging rights. It's not like we live in a full-on PvP world here...so again, who cares? There should be a dedicated personal pop-up for you if you get HPs around a town which you have a positive relationship with. Neutral gets you nothing. The higher your standing, the better stuff the city sets aside for you because you're 'fighting the good fight' for them...and you get rewarded. No random lucky click on the shop: YOU get offered something the next time you check into the shop BECAUSE you earned HPs and are held in good esteem with the city. Ser', Bast', heck, most players here have great ideas how they could be used...but it should be tied into your game play and behavior.
Serephe Posted Mar 13, 2012, 1:06 pm	Making rares too common just makes non-rare items irrelevant. When you're able to field 20 fire engines, why would you ever use an apache or chevalier? Which is a reason I was trying to get Shantyvilles loot turned way down when it was first introduced, but that's beside the point. HP should be used for something besides some "cash shop" idea where you're able to buy any item you want.
FireFly Posted Mar 13, 2012, 3:02 pm	Serephe said: Making rares too common just makes non-rare items irrelevant. When you're able to field 20 fire engines, why would you ever use an apache or chevalier? Being the unqestionable athority on 20 fire engine squads, let me put in my 2 cents... 1. Such a squad is a MASSIVE time and concentration commitment 2. Such a squad requires you to pretty much pool ALL of your gangers into a single squad, leaving your racing and group scouting options rather limited 3. You need a gang skilled enough in general to handle the 35 cars + reinforcements that you'll be facing, if you want to do this without casualties you'll need to know both the maps you'll be working with and set up the squad in support/offensive classes And last but not least, such a squad is a farming tool and just like most farming, it's not terribly exiting unless you get ####ed over  tl;dr Sure you can have a 20 fire engine squad, but after the first time a 2 royal eaton duo squad is proboably more fun.
Joel Autobaun Posted Mar 13, 2012, 3:49 pm	FireFly said: Serephe said: Making rares too common just makes non-rare items irrelevant. When you're able to field 20 fire engines, why would you ever use an apache or chevalier? Being the unqestionable athority on 20 fire engine squads, let me put in my 2 cents... 1. Such a squad is a MASSIVE time and concentration commitment 2. Such a squad requires you to pretty much pool ALL of your gangers into a single squad, leaving your racing and group scouting options rather limited 3. You need a gang skilled enough in general to handle the 35 cars + reinforcements that you'll be facing, if you want to do this without casualties you'll need to know both the maps you'll be working with and set up the squad in support/offensive classes And last but not least, such a squad is a farming tool and just like most farming, it's not terribly exiting unless you get ####ed over  tl;dr Sure you can have a 20 fire engine squad, but after the first time a 2 royal eaton duo squad is proboably more fun. I guess that makes two points against it.  It's game unbalancing and unfun.
Sarge Posted Mar 13, 2012, 7:12 pm	How is farming game unbalancing? And just because it is not fun for you doesn't mean others won't want to run daft numbers of whatever and play the game their way. It seems tying HP to locality or ganger/car involved in earning them seems most appropriate from the opinions offered.
iIIyB Posted Mar 14, 2012, 1:13 am	I do like the idea of getting some sort of loot in return for earning those HP's, but agree that we cant flood market with rares or its pointless. Been alot of good idea's about having JUST your gang get a special market offer for your hard work, but keep it to just what you would find in the wild at that area, finding a CC or HCR in Badlands during a scout isnt too rare, why not have them available as special treats in market? I also love the idea of tying the bountie to the specific ganger that got the kill, maybe my awesome gunner Jon Rambo collects 20 enemy heads, he then gets a 5-10 point boost to a stat, capped or not. Long as its not super easy to get characters mega HP i think that would be cool.
FireFly Posted Mar 14, 2012, 7:53 am	Sarge said: And just because it is not fun for you doesn't mean others won't want to run daft numbers of whatever and play the game their way. Your talking to the reason for the max squad CR ratings  Not saying it cant be fun, I'm saying that there is no way one would abandon other forms of scouting because of it.
*Bastille* Posted Mar 14, 2012, 8:10 am	Yes, yes, you are very good. Now, go run for PM or whatever head of state you have over there. Im not sure what 20 FEs has to do with a PA game of survival.
Serephe Posted Mar 14, 2012, 8:11 am	It's a forum patrol squad. Gets rid of all the flames.
*StCrispin* ce.services.mh@gmail.com Posted Mar 16, 2012, 5:36 am	In the past I have been an amature game designer as well as a player of many RPGs and wargames.  So note that my input here is colored by those factors. In West End Games's THE PRICE OF FREEDOM which was like a generic "Red Dawn, the roleplaying game" concept. HERO POINTS was a form of spendable score (or "currency" if you like) and you could use it for various actions such as increasing the likelyhood of success of some action or other (say your sniping at a sniper and you decide to spend a hero point to try and reduce the likelyhood your going to get waxxed, the GM decides it gives you +5 to perception roll or something and wow!  Critical success!  Granting you a + something to shooting/targeting and pow you pull a Carlos Hathc<>ck and put a 7.62 through his scope).  Also it could be used if you caught an unlucky roll and were killed.  (heroicly you avoid the brunt or whatever).  I had a Platoon Seargant when i was a Butter Bar 2LT, he was a Nam Vet.  He saw a guy trip a Anti-Tank mine somehow, get blown 50 yards through the air, and then get up all pizzed off.  He collapsed soon after but came through without a scratch and recovered fully after a long hospital stay...  Certainly he used a hero point!  I forget how much explosive is in an AT mine but it's alot.  I will sum up a few ideas: "Spend on the Fly" Uses for Hero Points: 1) Reduce Death injury to some lesser Critical injury requiring extended hospital stay (maybe double or triple normal time) PLUS some long term effect such as reduction of Health status, or the character takes up some addiction due to high stress.  PTSD is a bummer  2) Increase skill for some period of time...  possibly as short as a few turns or as long as a whole scout?  Dependant on # of points used? 3) Pedestrian "Dodge" ability.  Maybe You want to field some Bad MoFo angry guy ped...  spend a few points and get a percentage chance to dodge incoming shots for a few turns...  ie: the shot that "hits" requires another roll against say a 50% chance to dodge it...  afterwards, some activity reduction...  like Ped Nitro. 4) Heroic Effort:  allow an incapacitated character to wake up, or a low activity character to get a temporaty activity boost.  Again like Ped Nitro but lasts until he gets back to safety.  He keeps plodding along, dead on his feet, so to speak.  Then it requires extended rest or reduced activity for a while.  (i've done this myself.  After some military assignments I've fallen asleep and not woken up for 36 hours.  Then thought i slept 12 until i saw the date.  It messes u up)
Joel Autobaun Posted Mar 16, 2012, 3:11 pm	Sarge said: How is farming game unbalancing? And just because it is not fun for you doesn't mean others won't want to run daft numbers of whatever and play the game their way. It seems tying HP to locality or ganger/car involved in earning them seems most appropriate from the opinions offered. The NPCs cannot deal with the massive CRs.  They show up with less CR than the player are even easier to slay and farm the "good" equipment because you only have to annihilate 1/2 of them and the others surrender untouched. It's munchkin pure and simple.
Groove Champion Posted Mar 16, 2012, 4:20 pm	That may be true, Joel, but I never relied on the player market to purchase rare goods. Even without running crazy squads (I usually run a pair of HMG/MG LandRunners, sometimes substituting for one CC LandRunner) I've managed to keep afloat and even acquire a greater number of 3.2Lv8's, CC's, HGG's, BPU's, etc. The impact of the player market on equipment inflation isn't substantial because the damage is already done. Therefore, I think Sarge has a point: if players want to break the NPC CR mechanic and play against pushover opponents, let them. You and me both know the real challenge is in racing leagues (even if I never participate religiously like you).
JS Posted Mar 16, 2012, 5:21 pm	Joel Autobaun said: Sarge said: How is farming game unbalancing? And just because it is not fun for you doesn't mean others won't want to run daft numbers of whatever and play the game their way. It seems tying HP to locality or ganger/car involved in earning them seems most appropriate from the opinions offered. The NPCs cannot deal with the massive CRs.  They show up with less CR than the player are even easier to slay and farm the "good" equipment because you only have to annihilate 1/2 of them and the others surrender untouched. It's munchkin pure and simple. Your assertions are not exactly true. Yes, they have a hard time dealing with large CR, as long as the player knows what they are doing (no different than having troubl ewith low CR...  It's the AI).  I know several players that lose this way constantly.  I know several others that hardly ever lose.  You have to kill well over 1/2 of them, that was changed a long time ago.  In fact, at times you have to smash nearly everything to get them to stop.  There is one possible exception, and that is FF and the handfull of others who can field maximum CR squads.  I'm not sure how many FF has to kill before he starts to get the others to demo.  I can speak for up to 2500CR and it is well over 1/2, maybe as much as 90% at times.  The good loot virtually never demo's from stress (undamaged) as they seem to have extremely high courage, a bonus from Sam, are Zerkers or possibly an unholy alliance of several of those. Sarge, get used to some people around here telling you how you should play, what is supposed to be fun, etc, etc.  It's their hobby it seems.
JS Posted Mar 16, 2012, 5:25 pm	FireFly said: Serephe said: Making rares too common just makes non-rare items irrelevant. When you're able to field 20 fire engines, why would you ever use an apache or chevalier? Being the unqestionable athority on 20 fire engine squads, let me put in my 2 cents... 1. Such a squad is a MASSIVE time and concentration commitment 2. Such a squad requires you to pretty much pool ALL of your gangers into a single squad, leaving your racing and group scouting options rather limited 3. You need a gang skilled enough in general to handle the 35 cars + reinforcements that you'll be facing, if you want to do this without casualties you'll need to know both the maps you'll be working with and set up the squad in support/offensive classes And last but not least, such a squad is a farming tool and just like most farming, it's not terribly exiting unless you get ####ed over  tl;dr Sure you can have a 20 fire engine squad, but after the first time a 2 royal eaton duo squad is proboably more fun. This Valid
Joel Autobaun Posted Mar 16, 2012, 5:26 pm	I understand at 2500CR everything is just fine - yes.
JS Posted Mar 16, 2012, 6:01 pm	Joel Autobaun said: I understand at 2500CR everything is just fine - yes. lol, not what I was claiming.
*sam* Posted Mar 16, 2012, 6:35 pm	*Bastille* said: use of HPs to bribe DRM at arena events. Used prior to event in the web page when signing up for event. Used when wanting to compete on the track without a compromised vehicle, when DRM rep is bad. Doing this via the web page means you cannot adjust your car for the event (armour amounts etc, normally adjusted in the client), there was no time after bribing the official. You're in the event, and we will turn our back to your past shenanigans, this time. There is a chance they don't accept the bribe, take your hero point and stuff your car worse (as they are now even more mad at you for trying to bribe them) could even negatively effect overall rep. a few negatives, bribing out of bad DRM rep would be fairly useful, these negatives may help prevent overuse. Using HPS this way, you may not be effecting the overall rep with a faction, just for a short period or individual instance. Maybe they could be used between other factions similarly. eg, trucing out of an encounter or similar; Overlooking actions I kinda liked this original idea, although perhaps in a different way. What about using HPs to have the DRM soup up your car a bit for an event?
FireFly Posted Mar 16, 2012, 6:35 pm	Lately? I normally Total (As in, unlootable) 25/35 cars the recent megas I did around christmas or so, they certainly dont roll over and die like they used to.
FireFly Posted Mar 16, 2012, 6:37 pm	*sam* said: *Bastille* said: use of HPs to bribe DRM at arena events. Used prior to event in the web page when signing up for event. Used when wanting to compete on the track without a compromised vehicle, when DRM rep is bad. Doing this via the web page means you cannot adjust your car for the event (armour amounts etc, normally adjusted in the client), there was no time after bribing the official. You're in the event, and we will turn our back to your past shenanigans, this time. There is a chance they don't accept the bribe, take your hero point and stuff your car worse (as they are now even more mad at you for trying to bribe them) could even negatively effect overall rep. a few negatives, bribing out of bad DRM rep would be fairly useful, these negatives may help prevent overuse. Using HPS this way, you may not be effecting the overall rep with a faction, just for a short period or individual instance. Maybe they could be used between other factions similarly. eg, trucing out of an encounter or similar; Overlooking actions I kinda liked this original idea, although perhaps in a different way. What about using HPs to have the DRM soup up your car a bit for an event? Sam, tread with care... I dont think this would be good for stock events...
Joel Autobaun Posted Mar 16, 2012, 8:08 pm	Maybe HP by faction rather than by town.
Groove Champion Posted Mar 16, 2012, 8:10 pm	Provided some of the smaller factions are grouped together, I think the idea has merit. In other words, there needs to be a viable path besides becoming best friends with the merchants and civs.