*sam* Posted Nov 25, 2011, 11:10 am	This patch brings in no less than 35 new 3D weapons models; basically a complete re-vamp of the mounted projectile weapons. Thanks go to johnnygo for the initial modelling, and especially a huge thanks to Tinker for all the work he put into this! Thanks also to Bastille and Goat for some help with the texturing. I'm also moving the mount positions, mostly on muscle cars and sedans - as shown in the attached Symph picture, the front mounts are being raised by maybe 30cm or so. So far only the Pickup and Symp are affected - I want to make sure all is stable before doing the rest, which I'll do over the next week or two. This will have an impact on gameplay since it will raise these front mounted guns a little and, therefore, make them better for shooting over obstacles/low hills. This can only be a good thing in terms of slightly reducing the dominance of SUVs. At the same time as tweaking the gun mount points, I'll be slightly re-sizing some of the chassis, as many of them are too small or too large versus what they 'should' be. Thanks to Bastille for some detailed figures he produced some time ago for this purpose!
GrowlingBadger Posted Nov 25, 2011, 11:15 am	Nice! GB
FireFly Posted Nov 25, 2011, 11:18 am	O-M-F-G... SAM... I could kiss you  (in a non gay way) Of course, the rest of you nice helpers get hugs
Rokkitz Posted Nov 25, 2011, 11:22 am	wow! This is a quality update. Good work guys!
*sam* Posted Nov 25, 2011, 11:29 am	FireFly said: O-M-F-G... SAM... I could kiss you  (in a non gay way) Of course, the rest of you nice helpers get hugs  Er.. you can kiss Tinker if you like!
Stingray191 Posted Nov 25, 2011, 11:44 am	You continue to rock Sam & Tinker!
*Tango* Posted Nov 25, 2011, 11:55 am	nice, I've been waiting for this to see the light of day. congrats guys
*Grograt* gary.r.horder@gmail.com Posted Nov 25, 2011, 12:54 pm	NOW thats an update
Necrotech Posted Nov 25, 2011, 3:57 pm	Nice!
d0dger Posted Nov 25, 2011, 4:48 pm	very cool update Tank Guns might need scaled down just a bit, or weapons placement moved just a tad closer to center on the Trash Truck. Lots of clipping going on.
*JD_Basher* jd.basher@charter.net Posted Nov 25, 2011, 6:57 pm	GREAT name for a trash truck Dodger!..... Excellent movie (Serenity) and series (Firefly) too, btw!
d0dger Posted Nov 25, 2011, 10:07 pm	*JD_Basher* said: GREAT name for a trash truck Dodger!..... Excellent movie (Serenity) and series (Firefly) too, btw! Thanks I'm very fond of it. More than just a name though. check here for full body pics of Serenity: http://www.dark-wind.com/forums2/index.php?a=topic&t=4350&min=320&num=20
Parapsycho Posted Nov 25, 2011, 10:58 pm	FireFly said: O-M-F-G... SAM... I could kiss you  (in a non gay way) Ditto, except for the non-gay thing...  But, I'll give you a 10-second head start...
*JD_Basher* jd.basher@charter.net Posted Nov 26, 2011, 12:20 am	ParaPsycho said: FireFly said: O-M-F-G... SAM... I could kiss you  (in a non gay way) Ditto, except for the non-gay thing...  But, I'll give you a 10-second head start...  Eeewwww.....
Juris Posted Nov 26, 2011, 12:39 am	The new Buzzer look is awesome - much more intimidating, thanks Sam Edit: And thanks Tink
*sam* Posted Nov 26, 2011, 1:06 am	Tinker did more work on this patch than I did!
Fifth Posted Nov 26, 2011, 1:52 am	One nitpick: the rust color doesn't go well with all color schemes. Might there in the future be a way to change the paint on a vehicle's weapon mounts away from the rust-brown?
d0dger Posted Nov 26, 2011, 2:48 am	Fifth said: One nitpick: the rust color doesn't go well with all color schemes. Might there in the future be a way to change the paint on a vehicle's weapon mounts away from the rust-brown? I kinda thought the same. I was going to suggest having two textures for the guns, the current one and a plain gunmetal gray one. If the car was dirtied and not cleaned we get the rusty version. If the car's been kept clean we get the gunmetal gray. Might be an easier compromise to code than custom colors.
Fifth Posted Nov 26, 2011, 3:32 am	d0dger said: Fifth said: One nitpick: the rust color doesn't go well with all color schemes. Might there in the future be a way to change the paint on a vehicle's weapon mounts away from the rust-brown? I kinda thought the same. I was going to suggest having two textures for the guns, the current one and a plain gunmetal gray one. If the car was dirtied and not cleaned we get the rusty version. If the car's been kept clean we get the gunmetal gray. Might be an easier compromise to code than custom colors. Yeah, this works, especially because all my custom-colored cars I keep squeaky-clean.
*Bastille* Posted Nov 26, 2011, 3:49 am	Yay! great to see these on cars, Thanks for getting these in Sam, AWESOME TINK!( I know I have pained you in this process, only 6 months, short time really after all ) Colours of these mounts and rust and stuff has been a concern of mine, and one of the reasons Im really glad to see these on cars and in the Evan environment. Im not sure if multiple weapon skins is possible, a slight tone down on the brightness should be enough to blend them into most vehicle models. For those bright and pretty models out there.. ya just gunna have to make your models dirty and brown, what can I say this is the Pocky clipse!
d0dger Posted Nov 26, 2011, 4:21 am	*Bastille* said: Yay! great to see these on cars, Thanks for getting these in Sam, AWESOME TINK!( I know I have pained you in this process, only 6 months, short time really after all ) Colours of these mounts and rust and stuff has been a concern of mine, and one of the reasons Im really glad to see these on cars and in the Evan environment. Im not sure if multiple weapon skins is possible, a slight tone down on the brightness should be enough to blend them into most vehicle models. For those bright and pretty models out there.. ya just gunna have to make your models dirty and brown, what can I say this is the Pocky clipse!  Yes but my gang got their start in the deathsports where easily recognizable brightly colored vehicles was a good thing and they've yet to lose that lingering sense of showmanship.
d0dger Posted Nov 26, 2011, 4:25 am	looks like some of the guns already aren't rusty:
*JeeTeeOh* Posted Nov 26, 2011, 6:19 am	LOVE the new weapons treatment! Kudos to all involved!
d0dger Posted Nov 26, 2011, 7:45 am	JeeTeeOh said: LOVE the new weapons treatment! Kudos to all involved! I sure would like to hope this is the first step to randomizing NPC car builds!
Blaer Posted Nov 26, 2011, 7:57 am	Quote: I sure would like to hope this is the first step to randomizing NPC car builds! that would be most agreeable
*Tinker* Posted Nov 26, 2011, 11:32 am	If anyone has the urge I would me more then happy to send them the templates
Mad Mike Posted Nov 28, 2011, 8:39 am	the higher aim should also have the firing lines moved up. now when our firing lines are pointing into the ground we fire over the ground, a tad misleading
Celticfrost Posted Nov 28, 2011, 8:49 am	Just want to say LOVE the new guns and the work going into improving this game. Cant wait to see what comes next
Xabbuto sam@psychicsoftware.com Posted Nov 28, 2011, 9:30 am	while im loving the new los and graphics i did happen to notice one thing. on a landy a mmg mounted front(left side of car) it happens to not poke out far enough. looks like its half covered by the bumper... just thought you would like to know sam....other than that its a nice addition to LOS and overall looks!!!
Zephyr Posted Nov 28, 2011, 8:32 pm	Awesome upgrade! Very nice. Thanks to everyone who worked on this.
*sam* Posted Nov 28, 2011, 9:13 pm	Mad Mike said: the higher aim should also have the firing lines moved up. now when our firing lines are pointing into the ground we fire over the ground, a tad misleading I think the main problem here is that the new gun models weren't centred on the Z axis.. should be fixable
*Tinker* Posted Nov 28, 2011, 10:35 pm	In the dts exporter I used the "align with the bottom of the box" (and manually moving the box up or down), which was needed to get them all to align right at the same vertical position to the cars so all the weapons would look right siting on a hood for example. hope that helps
Mad Mike Posted Nov 29, 2011, 3:03 am	i was always thinking how the guns would look better over the hoods, now that they do they look much better... id love to see individual graphics per gun, the car cannon and anti tank gun looking huge on the top of the vehicle.... but that can wait another day, baby steps baby steps
*sam* Posted Nov 29, 2011, 8:44 am	*Tinker* said: In the dts exporter I used the "align with the bottom of the box" (and manually moving the box up or down), which was needed to get them all to align right at the same vertical position to the cars so all the weapons would look right siting on a hood for example. hope that helps Ah ok, all re-positioning needs to be done with the mount points defined in the car models, not within the gun models themselves.. I'll need to move their pivot point in 3dsmax so it aligns with their barrels.. You used Blender or something didn't you?
*Tinker* Posted Nov 29, 2011, 9:31 am	*sam* said: Ah ok, all re-positioning needs to be done with the mount points defined in the car models, not within the gun models themselves.. I'll need to move their pivot point in 3dsmax so it aligns with their barrels.. You used Blender or something didn't you? I used Cheetah 3d on mac to create and UV map them and exported to 3ds, then used SketchUp to re-export them again to 3ds (to fix some bug), then max 9 to export to dts.
Necrotech Posted Nov 29, 2011, 2:30 pm	Blaer said: Quote: I sure would like to hope this is the first step to randomizing NPC car builds! that would be most agreeable MMMMM.... Randomized builds.... that would be a treat... Provided 1 thing... that the game didn't cheat with them. Example.... Ever been chased by a Mantis for a while ? (aka reloading both driver and gunner on the fly, far more reloads than we could ever throw in etc.)
*Grograt* gary.r.horder@gmail.com Posted Nov 29, 2011, 3:28 pm	The AI needs all the help it can get ... if it cheats i would rather say it is an attempted advantage, the AI needs every advantage over us that can be put in, its not like we are losing gangers daily is it !!
d0dger Posted Nov 29, 2011, 4:28 pm	I agree on both points... the AI can cheat a little but the engine + weapons + crew shouldn't exceed the allowed bulk of the car.
FireFly Posted Nov 29, 2011, 5:27 pm	Better they cheat on reloads and bulk than ganger skill and accuarcy boosts, those things break it more than anything. I remember certain turn based games were 40-60% "to hit" meant one two things... To the Player - You'll probaobly miss To the AI - I will proboably hit... With a 50% chance of critical hit, ya foo'!
JuaN VaLDeZ Posted Nov 29, 2011, 5:44 pm	So if we were to exit a event and let the AI take over fighting, they wouldnt suddenly get reloads where there wasn't any would they?
Juris Posted Nov 29, 2011, 6:24 pm	The AI doesn't cheat on reloads - it just gets 'reload in motion' at any speed. I also think this is OK. I do think it's kinda BS to have NPC builds like the Badlander (single crew with reloads) specifically exploit this NPC advantage.
FireFly Posted Nov 29, 2011, 7:10 pm	To be fair, most of the musclecar builds are so unimpressive in the hands of the AI, they need stuff like the badlander to even matter... Says something when the most dangerous (regular) musclecar is the Trade Runner... twin rear HMG's, youch! If anyone here has ever been afraid of the single MMG one... yeah, only on travels I guess, in combat it's pathetic
*Ninesticks* Posted Nov 29, 2011, 7:37 pm	Not to mention of course that many of the AI builds were designed before the AI got to reload.
Fifth Posted Nov 30, 2011, 12:17 am	I have been, when I'm in a car with the same armament and even less armor. Chasers can be quite dangerous if you're already damaged or they have backup. Not to mention all the times I've used cars with little more armament than a Chaser to wipe the desert with the AI. FireFly said: To be fair, most of the musclecar builds are so unimpressive in the hands of the AI, they need stuff like the badlander to even matter... Says something when the most dangerous (regular) musclecar is the Trade Runner... twin rear HMG's, youch! If anyone here has ever been afraid of the single MMG one... yeah, only on travels I guess, in combat it's pathetic
JuaN VaLDeZ Posted Nov 30, 2011, 12:31 am	Where is there room in a Scorpion, gladiator or deseert siren for reloads?
FireFly Posted Nov 30, 2011, 11:45 am	Fifth said: I have been, when I'm in a car with the same armament and even less armor. Chasers can be quite dangerous if you're already damaged or they have backup. Not to mention all the times I've used cars with little more armament than a Chaser to wipe the desert with the AI. FireFly said: To be fair, most of the musclecar builds are so unimpressive in the hands of the AI, they need stuff like the badlander to even matter... Says something when the most dangerous (regular) musclecar is the Trade Runner... twin rear HMG's, youch! If anyone here has ever been afraid of the single MMG one... yeah, only on travels I guess, in combat it's pathetic  Yeah, but anything can be effective if you are already damaged and occupied, doesnt mean the chaser in specific is any nastier than say, a badlander or crescendo in that situation.
*Bastille* Posted Nov 30, 2011, 2:06 pm	Good loot, a Chaser. Handle with care. Really love this gun change.
d0dger Posted Nov 30, 2011, 2:34 pm	d0dger said: very cool update Tank Guns might need scaled down just a bit, or weapons placement moved just a tad closer to center on the Trash Truck. Lots of clipping going on. Similar clipping on the fire engines as well, maybe the tank guns is just a little too large.
*Tinker* Posted Nov 30, 2011, 3:58 pm	Sam is working on placing the weapons on the ones he knows about so keep posting troubled chassis