*sam* Posted Apr 4, 2011, 9:25 pm	1. This patch finalises the effects on driving of paint (I was waiting for an engine patch to do so). 2. We are trialling some changes to the Sniper specialism on Large Guns. I can tell you that the Rules Council discussed this one at great length, and it certainly wasn't a snap decision. Basically, Sniper is now less effective with Large Guns weapons that with regular Gunnery weapons. We will be assessing how this is panning out in a few weeks, and re-tweaking if necessary. 3. Bullethole decals! Watch your cars get torn to shreds! For the moment these will tend to look kinda randomly placed, because I need to look at each separate chassis type and have the 6 vehicle sides (Fr,Re,Le,Ri,To,Bo) mapped in their textures.. for each of these 6 sides we need to record the Top Left and Bottom Right corners, in pixel positions. It's not a big deal, just a few minutes per car. I will start to work through these, one or two a day. But if anyone would like to help out here, it would be greatly appreciated :-) I can show you exactly what's required..
*Rezeak* reecestensel@hotmail.co.uk Posted Apr 4, 2011, 9:29 pm	Saweeeeeeeeeeeeet Daaaaaawwwgeeey
The Paranoid Tourist Posted Apr 4, 2011, 9:34 pm	*sam* said: 1. This patch finalises the effects on driving of paint That sounds really awkward to me. Is that the effects of paint on driving? heheh
*sam* Posted Apr 4, 2011, 9:36 pm	No, the effects of driving on paint.
Hogfather Posted Apr 4, 2011, 9:37 pm	Sounds like some good changes. All you Car Cannon snipers will have to learn some real tactics!
*Rev. V* Posted Apr 4, 2011, 9:44 pm	I'm actually more partial to HCRs anyway...
Juris Posted Apr 4, 2011, 9:51 pm	*sam* said: 2. We are trialling some changes to the Sniper specialism on Large Guns. I can tell you that the Rules Council discussed this one at great length, and it certainly wasn't a snap decision. Basically, Sniper is now less effective with Large Guns weapons that with regular Gunnery weapons. We will be assessing how this is panning out in a few weeks, and re-tweaking if necessary. Excellent, just in time for Open PvP in in the south...  Kudos to the new Rules Council.  Thanks FF for illustrating the problem with screen shots.
*Rezeak* reecestensel@hotmail.co.uk Posted Apr 4, 2011, 9:55 pm	Hogfather said: Sounds like some good changes.  All you Car Cannon snipers will have to learn some real tactics!  Yeah, we'll have to use HCRs instead
FireFly Posted Apr 4, 2011, 9:59 pm	*Rezeak* said: Hogfather said: Sounds like some good changes.  All you Car Cannon snipers will have to learn some real tactics!  Yeah, we'll have to use HCRs instead Least they dont have terrible knockback power or horrendous damage output. Who knows, that almost sounds like balance?
Stingray191 Posted Apr 4, 2011, 11:23 pm	This should have popped up like the changes to PvP to give me a chance to change tactics. Not that I'm going to change, but it would have been nice.
Hogfather Posted Apr 5, 2011, 1:02 am	The only thing I find wrong with this change is people who developed their gunners based the old standards of Sniper find they have wasted their precious specializations. Given the massive amount of effort spend in gaining these points, it would seem that players should be given the option to change out their Sniper spec if they wish.
*jimmylogan* Posted Apr 5, 2011, 1:04 am	Hog - this was part of the discussion. No respec right now, but it's not out of the question for later, once we settle on final effects.
Hogfather Posted Apr 5, 2011, 1:06 am	What about instead of Sniper being a skill that affects all Gunnery-related skills..now at a reduced rate, if it kept its original bonus, but was specialized on each type of weapon - Cannons, Machines Guns, Rockets, etc. Thus players would sacrifice flexibility for the added accuracy at range.
Joel Autobaun Posted Apr 5, 2011, 1:32 am	*sam* said: 2. We are trialling some changes to the Sniper specialism on Large Guns. I can tell you that the Rules Council discussed this one at great length, and it certainly wasn't a snap decision. Basically, Sniper is now less effective with Large Guns weapons that with regular Gunnery weapons. We will be assessing how this is panning out in a few weeks, and re-tweaking if necessary. Uh ya...big difference.  Any chance on a re-spec? Edit:  Ya this is a botch.  ( I will explain in PMs, forums is no fkin use with this, Sam you can PM me or find out the hard way...)
d0dger Posted Apr 5, 2011, 2:59 am	Just took out two of my BPUs with HCR/CC and RL/CC they didn't seem too bad. I definitely noticed a big difference on my gunner with HW3 and Sniper 3 as opposed to the one with HW1 and Sniper 3... I was still able to hit at 90 meters with the car cannon with no sustained target or fire bonus... S335417
d0dger Posted Apr 5, 2011, 3:23 am	And again on the return. S335422 Was even hitting at 90 meters with no HW spec, but that gunner had sniper 4...
*Bastille* Posted Apr 5, 2011, 3:45 am	there goes scrapping pirates at 190 meters Weapon damage decals: Wow! I really didn't think this was possible. Cool stuff. I might be able to help with some bullet holes? do you need different holes for different guns. i.e. mg's(gats, large and small), rifles, rockets, large bore guns etc. ?
*Bastille* Posted Apr 5, 2011, 6:23 am	having trouble updating this last patch. dowload patch at startup, game boots and says Im version .135 and that I need to restart. I restart and it does the same thing. Closing the restart dialog, I can just keep playing. Read that others have had similar occurances in the past, do I need to delete or edit some file maybe or something?
*Longo* Posted Apr 5, 2011, 7:14 am	Right click icon, run as administrator?
*Tinker* Posted Apr 5, 2011, 8:39 am	try updating patch twice in a row?
*Bastille* Posted Apr 5, 2011, 11:56 am	Tried running as administrator, and yes tried several times in a row, seems to keep downloading the same client update. I'll try a full re-install and see how that goes. cheers for the replies fellows EDIT: Thanks for all the pointers guys, got it worked out with a full reinstall.
JS Posted Apr 5, 2011, 12:07 pm	Bastiel said: Tried running as administrator, and yes tried several times in a row, seems to keep downloading the same client update. I'll try a full re-install and see how that goes. cheers for the replies fellows I had the adminstrator trick not work for me one time in the past.  I had to re-install the game and that worked.
Stingray191 Posted Apr 6, 2011, 5:23 am	So has anyone been PVPed yet?
The Paranoid Tourist Posted Apr 6, 2011, 5:30 am	It's not on yet, Sting. ...though people may have been under the old rules...
*goat starer* Posted Apr 6, 2011, 11:56 pm	me and gm met near bl.... was most enjoyable
*sam* Posted Apr 7, 2011, 8:19 am	goat starer said: me and gm met near bl.... was most enjoyable Did you remember your flask of Earl Grey tea?
FireFly Posted Apr 7, 2011, 11:31 am	The Nerf really wasn't that heavy to be honest, TG's from the same guys I posted in that other thread (180 heavy sniper 3) will still hit you at roughly 110 - 120m... I assume the CC can go a bit further than that. ... ... Meanwhile, the same people on an HCR only gets 130 range, those things are pathetic
*goat starer* Posted Apr 7, 2011, 2:50 pm	*sam* said: goat starer said: me and gm met near bl.... was most enjoyable Did you remember your flask of Earl Grey tea?  Its Tinker who goes on Picnics I let him live after he paid me 4 million dollars to save his buzzer. I then agreed reparations for mental anguish caused of 4 million dollars. we then all had a nice glass of Pimms and went on our way!
The Underking Posted Apr 7, 2011, 3:48 pm	For me I've just noticed that first shot accuracy is horrible, but sustained fire acc builds up really fast, so I guess it just means a few more rounds wasted really.
d0dger Posted Apr 16, 2011, 2:59 pm	*sam* said: 3. Bullethole decals! Watch your cars get torn to shreds! Hoping it's just an oversight that can be corrected, but no bulletholes applied when watching recordings? Also. I know it's a huge undertaking, but these really show the need to do a major project and remap skins on all those cars that use mirroring in their skin map. Bulletholes look silly symmetrically applied to both sides of the car...
Triferus Posted Apr 28, 2011, 8:08 am	So are these new textures that have bullet holes in them or are the bullets being added as decals on a second layer on top of the original textures? The second method would be far more effective than the first, and in fact would allow the use of a randomizer to place bullet holes in random locations (but on the correct facing). If it's the first method then the bullet holes will always be in the same place. Also, using the second method, it could later be expanded to use scorch marks when hit by Flamers, and other weapon-specific decals.
*sam* Posted Apr 28, 2011, 10:23 am	d0dger said: Hoping it's just an oversight that can be corrected, but no bulletholes applied when watching recordings? I'll check that.. wasn't an oversight, and I assumed it would work. d0dger said: Also. I know it's a huge undertaking, but these really show the need to do a major project and remap skins on all those cars that use mirroring in their skin map. Bulletholes look silly symmetrically applied to both sides of the car... Hmm... would it be better in the short-term to disable bulletholes for those affected vehicles?
*sam* Posted Apr 28, 2011, 10:26 am	Triferus said: So are these new textures that have bullet holes in them or are the bullets being added as decals on a second layer on top of the original textures? The second method would be far more effective than the first, and in fact would allow the use of a randomizer to place bullet holes in random locations (but on the correct facing). If it's the first method then the bullet holes will always be in the same place. Also, using the second method, it could later be expanded to use scorch marks when hit by Flamers, and other weapon-specific decals. They're decals yep, blended with the base texture. The positioning is exactly as you suggest. There aren't actually individual layers maintained, each decal (including the 'dirt/rust' layer, and player-uploaded decals, league badges etc.) is blended together into the live texture on the vehicle. There's already scorchmarks too, by the way, whenever a vehicle is hit by a flaming weapon or when it's on fire.
Triferus Posted Apr 28, 2011, 10:42 am	*sam* said: Triferus said: So are these new textures that have bullet holes in them or are the bullets being added as decals on a second layer on top of the original textures? The second method would be far more effective than the first, and in fact would allow the use of a randomizer to place bullet holes in random locations (but on the correct facing). If it's the first method then the bullet holes will always be in the same place. Also, using the second method, it could later be expanded to use scorch marks when hit by Flamers, and other weapon-specific decals. They're decals yep, blended with the base texture. The positioning is exactly as you suggest. There aren't actually individual layers maintained, each decal (including the 'dirt/rust' layer, and player-uploaded decals, league badges etc.) is blended together into the live texture on the vehicle. There's already scorchmarks too, by the way, whenever a vehicle is hit by a flaming weapon or when it's on fire. Great!
*Bastille* Posted Apr 28, 2011, 10:46 am	Quote: Hmm... would it be better in the short-term to disable bulletholes for those affected vehicles? IMO Its noticeable, but I think less than if those vehicles had none at all. They still look cool. You just have to shoot the car more so theres so many bullet holes it makes no difference
Triferus Posted Apr 28, 2011, 1:30 pm	Bastiel said: Quote: Hmm... would it be better in the short-term to disable bullet holes for those affected vehicles? IMO Its noticeable, but I think less than if those vehicles had none at all. They still look cool. You just have to shoot the car more so theres so many bullet holes it makes no difference  Is it possible to have mirroring on for the texture, but not for the decals?
*sam* Posted Apr 28, 2011, 1:47 pm	No, the decals are actually done as modifications to the texture..
Triferus Posted Apr 29, 2011, 12:22 am	*sam* said: No, the decals are actually done as modifications to the texture.. I guess I'm a little confused. I have no experience working with graphics so that's not surprising. lol As I understand it, this is what happens: The positioning is determined by a randomizer, and after the position is determined, the bullet hole is blended into the texture (sort of a modified texture generated on the fly?) and applied to the vehicle. This texture is then mirrored. So... what if the randomizer ran twice, two blended textures were generated, and then one applied to the left side, and the other to the right side?
*Dark Tempest* Posted Apr 29, 2011, 1:31 am	Not quite Tri. What really happens is that the model is referencing the same part of the JPEG texture twice, once for each side of the car. Creating two textures and referencing each of them would be an insane amount of coding, since the UVW mapping on the model is built from scratch in the engine.
The Paranoid Tourist Posted Apr 29, 2011, 2:00 am	I noticed that the bullet holes on the Wurzel chassis seem unnaturally large. I don't know if this is an easy fix but I think they should be shrunk a bit to stay in scale. Edit: These were all HMG or MMG bullets.
Triferus Posted Apr 29, 2011, 2:26 am	*Dark Tempest* said: Not quite Tri. What really happens is that the model is referencing the same part of the JPEG texture twice, once for each side of the car. Creating two textures and referencing each of them would be an insane amount of coding, since the UVW mapping on the model is built from scratch in the engine. Well... would it be easier to make the bullet holes be on a separate layer then? Or, eliminate mirroring entirely from the hood and just make it one texture? How does it do the sides? Bullet holes only appear on the side that was hit, so are they not mirrored then?
The Paranoid Tourist Posted Apr 29, 2011, 4:20 am	They appear on both sides on some vehicles, even when the thing has only been shot on one. I would rather have mirrored bullet holes than none at all.
Triferus Posted Apr 29, 2011, 4:24 am	The Paranoid Tourist said: They appear on both sides on some vehicles, even when the thing has only been shot on one. I would rather have mirrored bullet holes than none at all. I agree. I'm just examining any potential methods of removing the mirrored bullet holes in the future.
The Paranoid Tourist Posted Apr 29, 2011, 4:51 am	Sure. I was just responding to Sam's earlier question. Keep on sorting the solution!
johnny go Posted Apr 29, 2011, 8:30 am	[quote= I would rather have mirrored bullet holes than none at all.[/quote] me to!!
*Rev. V* Posted Apr 29, 2011, 9:13 am	I'd rather have chainsaws....
Triferus Posted Apr 30, 2011, 2:51 am	*Dark Tempest* said: Not quite Tri. What really happens is that the model is referencing the same part of the JPEG texture twice, once for each side of the car. Creating two textures and referencing each of them would be an insane amount of coding, since the UVW mapping on the model is built from scratch in the engine. I'm guessing this wouldn't work either then, but I just had the idea that even if it could just invert the bullet hole position on each side... For example: Instead of getting this (ignore the pipes): |*  * | ** you would get this: |* | ** |    * To do that though, you'd have to rotate one of the textures 180 degrees and then flip it over. That would only work if both sides of the texture are usable, which may very well not be the case. It also wouldn't work on most textures with any kind of patterns on them.
d0dger Posted Apr 30, 2011, 2:54 am	Triferus said: *Dark Tempest* said: Not quite Tri. What really happens is that the model is referencing the same part of the JPEG texture twice, once for each side of the car. Creating two textures and referencing each of them would be an insane amount of coding, since the UVW mapping on the model is built from scratch in the engine. I'm guessing this wouldn't work either then, but I just had the idea that even if it could just invert the bullet hole position on each side... For example: Instead of getting this: |*  * | ** you would get this: |* | ** |    * To do that though, you'd have to rotate one of the textures 180 degrees and then flip it over. That would only work if both sides of the texture are usable, which may very well not be the case. It also wouldn't work on most textures with any kind of patterns on them. Won't work because he's blending into the vehicle skin texture and there's only half a skin that's just copied/mirrored over. It's not top priority but it sure would be nice to get whole skins for all the vehicles and this is just another reason why.
*goat starer* Posted May 2, 2011, 5:45 pm	The Paranoid Tourist said: I noticed that the bullet holes on the Wurzel chassis seem unnaturally large. I don't know if this is an easy fix but I think they should be shrunk a bit to stay in scale. Edit: These were all HMG or MMG bullets. the bullet holes are too large on every chassis....
johnny go Posted May 2, 2011, 5:47 pm	but thay look cool!
*Jagged Monkey* Posted May 2, 2011, 7:27 pm	But I use big bullets.