About the league system
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*Zothen* Posted Jun 18, 2007, 2:40 pm |
Hello!
(first: sorry for my crappy english, but Im not a native speaker) Ive been racing with you for a week now and I really started to love this game! Right now Im just waiting that paypal allows me to buy my subscription. Ive done a bunch of races before I had a look at the mechanics of the league system and imo the system that takes the average points made in a week is a very nice idea. Basicly its made to allow players who play not very often to join the leagues equally. This is a good approach, but while it balances players wo play seldom, it is also quite unfair. Players who race all the week long get their average points, but other players can just make one single race and get all the points from this race. Some players need to race (money, skill...) and others dont! So players who dont need to race make only one race and might stop racing for the rest of the week (going scouting, missioning, etc.). And its quite easy to get a 1st pos in a single, well-selected game, but its not as easy to hold the 1st pos for e.g. 15-20 races (at this time I made 2of2 1st pos. this week...). This unbalances the leagues, because even an unexperienced driver, with a little bit luck, can make a single 1st pos. in a race/DR and so the leagues are not about skill but are influenced by a too big bunch of luck on one side (the single race racers) and the problem of unluck, if you miss just two first positions out of 10 races, on the other side! In fact, a driver who makes eight 1st positions out of 10 races can be called a good driver, but a winner of a single race might just be a lucky hotshot! The difference is that the good driver gets less than 20 pts. and the hotshot gets them all! He gets the full pay for *not attending* any longer! Fair? I would suggest that a minimum number of races is needed to get your points entered to the league! I think a number of 5-10 races should be fine. In my opinion at least 5 races are not to much for players who want to compete in a league, but 10 would give a better average of the players skills. The league would come closer to be a league of competion by skill than by luck. Its also not impossible to count the points in when a driver has not the necessary number of races made, but not with their full value/average. What do you think? Thanks! |
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Alocalypse Posted Jun 18, 2007, 2:42 pm |
I pretty much agree, but this has come up before and it's been quite throughly discussed and no one really has come up with a vastly better solution that still balanced casuals and no-lifers in the leagues.
Links to past threads: http://www.dark-wind.com/forums2/index.php?a=topic&t=404 http://www.dark-wind.com/forums2/index.php?a=topic&t=940 http://www.dark-wind.com/forums2/index.php?a=topic&t=1017 |
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*Zothen* Posted Jun 18, 2007, 3:11 pm |
damn! Im sorry guys, havent noticed the other threads! My fault! | ||||||||
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Alocalypse Posted Jun 18, 2007, 3:16 pm |
No problem, they were discussed a bit before you joined and dropped off the first page(s), but I thought I'd point them out so you're not too surprised to get a slightly negative reception because of that. | ||||||||
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MerryWalrus Posted Jun 18, 2007, 6:47 pm |
I used to think along those lines, but then i though, what (apart from the title) do you get from winning the league? The prize money can be won many times over from just racing more often. It is over 12 weeks after all. So it's not really a viable income source just racing once a week.
I guess all you win is some in-game status and sme pixels by your name. There is an element of skill as well, due to it again being over 12 weeks, the player must be consistantly good over that period of time, so luck isn't the biggest factor, they could also completely #### up a race but not have time to do another. |
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*Zothen* Posted Jun 19, 2007, 10:01 am |
Dont get me wrong, but do you really want to tell me that you dont understand why millions of peoples around the (usually western) world compete for positions on ladders, boards, stats without the need to earn their money from it or stuff like this??? Do you think all those e-sport gamers are wrong and have no goal for themselves? Or do you think they are wrong because they are simply happy with seeing their name in on a "list/table"? I dont think that you are thinking this way, so you made absolutly no argument! |
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*sam* Posted Jun 19, 2007, 10:36 am |
I'll probably be increasing the league prizes for the next game year, by the way. The prizes as they stand used to be substantial, but with all the wilderness activity going on now they're out of date. | ||||||||
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*viKKing* Posted Jun 19, 2007, 10:39 am |
I've pinned this thread because it is one of the other Frequently Requested suggestions. | ||||||||
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CptHowdy Posted Aug 6, 2007, 8:08 pm |
my two cents..again! not going to find a balance between casual and hard core in one league. solution is two leagues! 15 races (or whatever number is decided upon as casual) and under and you appear in league 1, once you hit 30 (or whatever number is decided upon as hard core) for the week you get bumped into league 1A. everyone ends up competing against others who have about the same activity level. | ||||||||
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Deathangels Shadow Posted Aug 6, 2007, 9:59 pm |
The dual league thing is a good idea... to expand on the idea, perhaps you have to come in the top 3 (or 5, or some other number) in the league to graduate out of the rookie leagues. Make the cycle of the rookie leagues much shorter, like say 3 weeks instead of 12 or something. | ||||||||
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xander Posted Aug 8, 2007, 10:44 pm |
Maybe you should be able to "opt-out" so not every race counts to your average. Say you have a 40pt average, and theres a 28p race going, if youre going hard in the league, you wouldnt join that race.. | ||||||||
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Deathangels Shadow Posted Aug 8, 2007, 11:45 pm |
The problem with that being, the really killer racers could win one good event and then opt out for the rest of the week... negatively impacting everyone else's averages without affecting their own. | ||||||||
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*Zothen* Posted Aug 11, 2007, 9:55 pm |
Perhaps different prices for leagues? A general price for the league (like now) and weekly prizes for the highest points achieved?
Sorry, but I stopped league racing, because imo its broken! I hoped for a change before the new leagues started, but... Its no fun to compete against people who have all the time in the world to wait for the biggest race in the week! I thought DW should also be playable with a small timescale?? |
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Alocalypse Posted Aug 11, 2007, 10:17 pm |
I still don't think this is the case, looking at last years league race scores the points average over 12 races wasn't that much over 20p (though it'll probably be higher this year) so if you're consistant and usually win races you can do well even without joining the high-scoring races... |
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*sam* Posted Aug 11, 2007, 10:44 pm |
I don't want to have any kind of opting out of getting points in a race, or of counting only your best result in the week, since it's important that every race has the potential to knock down your points. Otherwise you have a dangerous situation where people can enter races purely to mess other people up.
I think the idea of leagues having an overall prize plus another for weekly points total might work, although the latter will strongly favour people who have lots of time. What about this: all league races count towards two leagues, one of which is the same as now and the other of which adds up your points scored in the first 5 (or 10?) events per week. The other possibility is to bring back non-league events, or of having lots more professional events...? |
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Alocalypse Posted Aug 11, 2007, 11:09 pm |
I doubt the highest weekly points total idea will get much support unless there was something to make it less of a grind.
Also I don't think the first 5-10 events league would be different enough from the first one and it'd require too much activity and since activity is part of the problem because people feel like they need to hold out until high point races to stand a chance I don't think it'd help much. I'd like to see something totally different from what we have now like giving the "Saturday Evening League" type leagues another go, so there's just one race per week where you can get points so it works like a realistic league would. I think having more non-league events could make it harder for less active people to get into higher scoring league races and would actually probably work the opposite to solving the problem... |
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*Toecutter* Posted Aug 11, 2007, 11:17 pm |
1 race per week would be impossible to do...thngs like differing time zones...limited spots...etc
would love to see a lot more pro events tho ^^ also i would think that it should be 20 points max for a win...just raise the prize $ for multiple vet races...gives too much of an advantage to 1 time zone i think |
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Alocalypse Posted Aug 11, 2007, 11:22 pm |
I guess you could have a poll before starting them up to see when the most people could attend them and have leagues for the top 3-4 times. And for limited spots there's time trials. |
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*viKKing* Posted Aug 11, 2007, 11:24 pm |
I agree with you Toe, but maybe it could be focused on a complete day instead, and it could be a different league.
That could probably be a lot, but why not, even performing all 3 events in 24 hours - or during week-ends? only 48 hours to complete events? That could be the league of the day of glory or whatever. Maybe it would attrack more non subscribers people at once. |
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*Toecutter* Posted Aug 11, 2007, 11:28 pm |
this is the problem right here...have to have it for all people. |
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*Zothen* Posted Aug 11, 2007, 11:36 pm |
I go with alos suggestion, but Toe is also right! But even if not everybody might join in because of reasons toe mentioned it would also be a nice addition! More variations of gameplay, more spicey! 
But first I think we should abolish or change the bonus-points system! Its the current main reason for the unequality of the leagues. It simply shouldnt be that a race with 5+ subscribers (only subs!) doubles the points of a single race.. E.g. the gaps in a single 44-54+ pts race between the 1st and 2nd are way too big. At least the bonus points should be much lower than they are now. |
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*sam* Posted Aug 11, 2007, 11:41 pm |
This is to stop people cheating with dummy gangs, it's nothing more sinister/elitist than that. The idea of the bonus points, of course, is to encourage people to race together. Last season you might recall players avoided each other on purpose, which is really bad for gameplay. I would be happy to reduce the bonus points. Currently it's actually a square root of the number of veterans subscribers. 2 vets => 1.41x pts 3 vets => 1.73x pts etc. We would need to get the bonus equation just right, as either too high or too low isn't good. Or, alternatively, as had been suggested: bring back the old-style weekly leagues and give them higher prizes than the current style ones (whose prizes could be reduced). The peak playing times seem to be (server time) 10PM-10AM, so we could have a different league race every 3 hours during that, perhaps. |
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xander Posted Aug 12, 2007, 2:25 am |
Hmm, i lost my combat league points this week, because i had to to go right after the game started and resigned after 6 seconds into the game and got 0 points on 1 game. Then after that I tried a race and crashed then it resigned before i could get back in. Another 0 points. | ||||||||
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*Speedealer* Posted Aug 12, 2007, 3:05 am |
even some people can't play specific days. How bout this: since the league last a week, one has an entire week to complete that league event? For example, lets say the race league random event was symphs on the speed track (my fave ). Each player then has 1 week to finish that race offered, say, once every 6 or 8 hours. Then all the other races could be for cash and bragging rights with no loss of points. And each week, the league races would be a totally even playing ground.
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*JD_Basher* jd.basher@charter.net Posted Aug 12, 2007, 4:36 am |
Zothens' idea has some merit in my opinion, with a few changes.
since the points won are an 'average' of how many races an individual has ran in the week, make the points shown on the league points winning list update once a week maybe 1 hr before the 'league week' changes. instead of how it is now after every race ran. This way, no one has the advantage of seeing the points totals until the weekly change. They will be 'forced' to rely on looking at their OWN points averages and deciding if it will be good enough when the points are shown or should they risk the possibility of lowering their average by maybe losing a race or two. I have been thinking a lot about this since the League awards were handed out for 'last years' points races! The League points races need a revamping to somehow level the playing/racing fields! |
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Alocalypse Posted Aug 12, 2007, 5:10 am |
I think lowering the points could help a bit, although people who get into the high points races will still have an advantage, only it'll be less noticeable.
If you do lower the points next league year then I think the cash prizes should stay the same. I don't think the weekly leagues would or should be for everyone and that we'd need to be too concerned about making sure everyone can join as long as there's enough people in eacho of them to make it competitive, which is why I think less is more with those leagues although they should be spread over the days and timezones just enough to give everyone a reasonable chance to participate... |
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Hak Posted Aug 12, 2007, 6:37 am |
I like the idea of two activity-based leagues. so that those who race minimally have one leage, and those who race more often have another.
add to that everyone in a certain league getting a point per race of that league, whether or not they race, and people who choose to race once a week can't scalp races, and those who have a low number of races by circumstance will be competing equally... |
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*viKKing* Posted Aug 12, 2007, 7:26 am |
Maybe +1 point per human player only? |
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*sam* Posted Aug 12, 2007, 7:39 am |
I've been thinking about this, and I can see why Zothen and others aren't happy with the current arrangement. The current system favours mostly those players who are flexible in their schedule.
There are several conflicting requirements going on here: 1. There must be events on at all times. 2. The leagues should not penalise people that can't play a lot 3. The leagues should not penalise people that want to play a lot 4. The leagues should not penalise people that can't play at particular times. 5. Human players should be encouraged to compete in the same events as each other, but not in such a way that cheating is likely. What I was suggesting for the 'new' weekly leagues would be something like this: Friday is Race League night. These league races run at 10pm, 1am, 4am, 7am, 10am. You can only enter one of these, and there's no bonus points for multiple human entries. Timetrials run at several times on a Thursday. Saturday is Deathrace League night. Timetrials for this run on a Friday. Sunday is Arena Combat League night. We could have league events for these running on other days too, but I think this would lead to people avoiding playing against each other, since there's no bonus points. What about the current league system? This could: 1. Be removed (and all the continuously running events would be for $ only) 2. (Probably the better option): be left as it is, and run in parallel with the 'new' league system. The bonus points for multiple human entrants could be reduced, say by half?, i.e. x1.2, x1.37, etc.
I think that might be too low, and we would have people avoiding each other in the league events again? |
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Alocalypse Posted Aug 12, 2007, 8:17 am |
I think the way the weekly league races would be organized is great.
That sounds good to me too, but I'm afraid that if you change it now after the leagues have started then it'll be very difficult for people to catch up to anyone who got high points races in by luck earlier and has a good lead. |
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*JD_Basher* jd.basher@charter.net Posted Aug 12, 2007, 8:45 am |
The points system, I think, is fine as it is......
As Alo said, changing now would be too confusing with the current system in place. I don't think halving the points for multiple Vets is a good option though. Why not make a "Veteran" wait till the end of the week to see his current points lead/loss. I know this may not be realistic, but it would, in the scheme of things, make the Vets more competitive in League points as opposed to seeing their rise on the points ladder every day after their wins or losses.... All they (Vets) have to go by is the past weeks points and their weekly average from their gang leagues page if this were implemented. |
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*viKKing* Posted Aug 12, 2007, 8:58 am |
I'm coming back on my Week-End Fever idea, sorry for being boring today, but older you are, nastier you become 
We are all mostly free on week-end, so the idea is to run League events from friday 12:00 pm to monday 12:00 pm, in order to keep on track with multiples time frames (all times are GMT/Server Time). During that period, only one race track and car are chosen for each event type (race, deathrace and arena combat), so all players are competing at equal chances. Maybe we could allow players to keep the best score achieved during such events. Not sure there should be extra points for human beings participating events for equity purpose. |
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*sam* Posted Aug 12, 2007, 9:23 am |
jd - 'hiding' your points will just force you to keep a spreadsheet and work it out for yourself though, no? And to go thru the events diary to work out your rivals' points.
vikk-
I don't like this, as it could mean people entering events just to mess up other people, knowing that their own result was irrelevant.
The problem with this is that humans will just avoid playing in races against each other then. The only way I can see it working with no bonus points is if there is a severely limited amount of events available, which is what the "Friday Night Race League"idea would do. |
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*viKKing* Posted Aug 12, 2007, 10:56 am |
Sure Sam.
But I suggest keeping the bonus point very low, because if someone can't compete in the required schedule, he may feel a bit off, and this is what Zothen pointed out. This is why a +1 per player is certainly enough. Concerning events running during only a day and a limited schedule, I can already see people unable to play, this is why IMHO (of course), only week-ends are presenting the appropriate time length. |
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xander Posted Aug 12, 2007, 11:04 am |
Maybe have 1 event per day or so that is more than points already so more people would join that. | ||||||||
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*sam* Posted Aug 12, 2007, 12:07 pm |
Sure. If you look at the list of conflicting requirements I gave earlier, you'll see that you can't satisfy all players with a single league type. This is why the two different league types being proposed could both run? But would 3 different styles of leagues running simultaneously be too much..? I mean, if someone doesn't have a flexible enough schedule to compete in the high points scoring events (i.e. the current league system), and they can't make Friday or Saturday evening league times, then what will suit them? edit: I see what you're proposing actually vikk. It could work if you were only allowed to enter one of these events, but it could be anytime during the 48 hour period..? Certainly reducing the bonus for number of veterans in the event can be done (to start next season). Does anyone else think that +1 per veteran is enough, or that x1.2, x1.7 etc. is better?
That's still favouring people that can manage that particular time though, isn't it? |
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*viKKing* Posted Aug 12, 2007, 2:28 pm |
Yes, that's the idea behind. Edit: bonus +1 only. I think it's balanced; giving large users races an extra bonus, but not enough to be out of reach of competitors. |
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*Speedealer* Posted Aug 12, 2007, 3:52 pm |
anyone see my idea? Exact same league event all week but only avail 3 or 4 times daily and then more regular and pro races. Even playing field, track times where everyone can make at least 1 event and more human vs human(s) competition in the nonleague events too | ||||||||
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*sam* Posted Aug 12, 2007, 6:03 pm |
Right speed, that could work too yeah. Could each player only enter once, or would it be an average of their pts? | ||||||||
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*sam* Posted Aug 12, 2007, 6:29 pm |
Another possibility here is to record the total time each competitor takes in their race (assuming they can only enter one) and rank them all at the end of the week, and using that to decide the points scored. Not sure if a bonus for multiple human entries is needed in that case. | ||||||||
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*Speedealer* Posted Aug 12, 2007, 6:45 pm |
re: my post
could work either way. You get 1 shot or its averaged. Your time suggestion could work for races, but tricker for DRs and pts would still have to be tallied for combats of course. |
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Big Ron Posted Dec 18, 2007, 10:36 am |
I'd go with more professional events. I've yet to compete in a single one because of the times they are arranged at. If they could be spread across the day more, admittedly some would get no entries, but early evening stuff would be packed out. I suggest that Sam have a quick peek at how many people are logged on at what times and try and get more 'Pro' players pro-racing.
N. |
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*sam* Posted Dec 18, 2007, 11:09 am |
Good idea Ron, I'll do that. | ||||||||
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madmax Posted Mar 12, 2008, 7:53 pm |
Dead thread revival time!
I think that the the prizes for pro events need to be increased. I got second in a Pro DR against Alo and xander s while ago and spent more than my winnings fixing my armor. I have also heard people say that placed well in pro races and lost money. |
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Marrkos Posted Mar 12, 2008, 8:21 pm |
Was there a hole in CptHowdy's proposal that I didn't see?
Same or greater number of league events, and participants are automagically placed into the A, AA, AAA (or whatever) brackets based on how many events they've done. Points calculations wouldn't have to change (I don't think?), and it seems logical that if you run enough events to move into the higher brackets then you should also be running against enough human players to keep your points competitive. Similarly, if there are 10 people who all run 1 event alone (max points), at the end of the league there's a 10-way tie for 1st in the lowest bracket, and the prize money is split between them. |
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Alocalypse Posted Mar 12, 2008, 10:11 pm |
There's not nearly enough players for that I think. Also I didn't want to suggest this earlier since it overlaps with ladders before, but since no one does ladder stuff seriously... here goes: Mix leagues and ladders (eliminating the ladders until there's enough players for serious competition and a random matchup system) So the league system would use a ranking system similar to the current ladder system (only tuned for multiplayer events and not 1v1 matches) where you can gain or lose points. This way racing more wouldn't exactly be discouraged and you could increase your score even with a 2nd place (if you beat strong players). You can force players to do weekly races by inflating the points (maybe just for NPC drivers if they'll have rankings) every friday, or by having some kind of decay for inactivity. I think inflating points would work better since that way the winner wouldn't be too clear until the end and the stakes would get higher as the season closes. It'd require quite a bit of well thought out algorithms and stuff to keep it all together. (I can try to flesh out and post my ideas on those if this seems like a good idea to other people) |
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*viKKing* Posted Apr 9, 2008, 6:49 pm |
I'm definitively in favor of the best score achieved among a maximum of 5 participations on a given track.
Example for races: The track would be defined for the whole week, so all players would compete on it. There could even be limitations for the car as well, using the same technic: one car, one track, one week. Same system for DRs and Combats. |
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Groove Champion Posted Nov 3, 2008, 10:15 pm |
Hey all,
I only have a few minutes to post at work and not enough time to read all comments. I have however wanted to post about the league system for a few weeks now. Essentially, I agree with the very first post on this thread: the single-racer has a definite advantage on the participants who race multiple events. I find this frustrating and given my performance in last weeks Somerset Deathrace league, I have decided to "sit pretty" with my single 2nd place finish this week. It seems the only way for me to maybe finish in the top 10 for the league. ... and I hate myself for doing it. I know I am exploiting a weakness in the point system that has consistently frustrated me since I began playing. Here is my suggestion: (apologies if redundant) Would it be possible to keep an average on the number of races that ladder members take part in every week? I think there should be a critical minimum number of events to participate in to be eligible for the prizes. It doesn't need to be high, I understand that not all players can participate as heavily. For example, could we not impose a minimum (on average) of three races per week in the event? For a 4 week event, any player who has not participated in a total of 12 events or more is eliminated from the board when calculating the final standings. I find that 3 races per week is a fair amount. If a player doesn't have time to enter in 3 league event in a period of three weeks, I feel he should not be eligible for organized events, especially when the prizes are rare chassis and vast amounts of money that would be quite useful to more serious participants. Any thoughts? I'll be keeping an eye on this post in the next little while. What I have just proposed is the only solution I can find to the exploitation of the league system by some players. |
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Kime Dennory Posted Nov 6, 2008, 12:41 am |
Most of the recommendations in this thread would just keep me from participating in leagues.
If you could do up to four races and take the best one, and I can only afford to be on DW twice a week (and I do like to scout too!) then that gives you an enormous advantage over me, because I only play two or three times a week, and I like racing but I also like scouting so I'm not going to dedicate every moment of my play to a league. This would probably sour me on leagues after a while, and I'd just slowly stop participating in them. If I am actually required to do more than one event a week, then I just would never enter at all. For me, one of the nice things about DW is that it isn't one of those games where you have to be one of the constant players in order to achieve anything interesting. This is taking us away from that. If that's the direction DW wants to go, it's a perfectly valid one, but it's not the game I signed up for. I still don't understand what's wrong with the current system. I mean, we have people complaining that it makes luck far too important, and then you look at the top three people in all the leagues and they're all pretty highly skilled. And you look at the #1 and there's a better than 50% chance it's Alo or Xander. And Alo is one of the ones who is complaining. Presumably because he doesn't actually win <i>every</i> league? -KD |
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Groove Champion Posted Nov 7, 2008, 3:07 am |
I don't think it's fair to criticize requests to have players involve themselves in what they undertake. I don't feel that requiring two races a week (on average) is turning Dark Wind into World of Warcraft.
Two races! That's eight races for a 4 week event. I understand some people prefer scouting, and I think this suggestion takes that into consideration. Participants should have to make an average to prove that their score isn't all luck. Sure someone might get lucky twice, but at least this lessens the chance involved in the final standings. Following some discussions in the client lobby, I conceed that requiring three events is a little steep. |
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Kime Dennory Posted Nov 7, 2008, 5:52 pm |
I don't care to argue this any more, but I will say that what you're really saying is 'sure, someone might get lucky four times, but probably won't get likely eight times'. Because if it's luck, then they've got to do it every week to win.
-KD |
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*Marc5iver* marcg@comcast.net Posted Nov 7, 2008, 6:13 pm |
I don't see why there should be a problem with having a minimum number of events that you must enter, my thought would be 2-3 a week. Any other league (in real life - bowling, old-man softball, etc), you are required to participate on a regular basis or else you don’t stay in the league for long. If there was nothing and stake (except bragging rights, which are huge) then maybe regular participation wouldn’t/shouldn’t be required. If you don’t have time to enter enough league events, isn’t that what the race, deathrace and arena events are for? When I think of a “league” I think of something where there will be regular participation required. Thats my two cents | ||||||||
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Groove Champion Posted Nov 8, 2008, 4:38 pm |
I couldn't put it more simply. Enter non-league events to have no commitment. |
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Valiance Posted Nov 8, 2008, 5:56 pm |
I have once finished a league. It was a huge commitment. It required to me to come first in a race *every* week for 12 weeks. More than that seems like far too big a commitment. To date, I think that only Alo has the patience to do that every week.
I'd actually like the leagues reward *less* commitment, rather than the current system which means that only people like Alo, who play for about 8 hours every day, find it easy to participate. (No offence, Alo, just trying to balance the game for those without time as well as those with - which was one of Sam's orginal design principles) |
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xander Posted Nov 8, 2008, 6:05 pm |
I've won the race and deathrace league now, without much effort .
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Jaguar Posted May 8, 2009, 5:45 pm |
It seems like there is essentially just one thing to balance around - consistancy. That seems to be the focus. The question is, do people want consistancy within a week or over the whole league?
If one is trying to get consistancy across the league (ie the long term), then any one given week shouldn't matter as much which leads to solutions like reduced points per week, greater number of events, more weeks, etc). If it's per week consistancy (short term), then that requires solutions not always inclusive with the above. Compare the differences between American football and baseball. Per game, per inning performance is far less important than season long performance in baseball. For football, due to the high point values, short season, and other factors like champion , any one game is far more important than overall record (it's entirely possible for a team with a 8-8 record to end up the champion of the year or for a unbeaten team to lose a single game and not win the champion). Anyway, my thoughts at the moment would be lowered point value per place: This means closer overall point values which means outstanding performances over time will stand out more than one or two lucky breaks. I would also see a required minimum event requirement and perhaps maximum requirement helping. However, I don't think it should be per-week but rather per-league. That is, you must race at least X events at any time during any week to submit your stats to the league with a max (maybe) of Y events (perhaps taking your results, dropping the highest and lowest scores, and gathering Y amounts of the remainder). Combined with a tiered system of participation (people who race 1-2 events go into one bracket, 3-4 into another, etc) so that there are bracket champs with perhaps a short playoff style overall championship race for all bracket winners. Low required events would be leagues that place more emphasis on luck and per-race performance. You'd probably see more lucky breaks and upsets. Higher ones would have more consistant winners and losers though it may also be a little more boring in the long-long run if the same people keep placing in the top 10. |
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Procyon Posted Jul 2, 2009, 8:33 pm |
I like pro events, and I like leagues.
I would very much like a pro league. |
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Swift Posted Jul 11, 2009, 9:43 pm |
(I hope I don't do thread necromancy here... just had some opinions and suggestions on league play and thought this was a good thread to post it)
From the POV of comparatively "new guy" who can have a lucky break and win a race when he less expects it and then the next day do some stupid thing and lose race which he should have won, I must say I don't like the idea of less randomness in league play. Winning 4 events per league is already hard for me; from my POV, it certainly requires skill along with some luck. If you take out skill out of winning league, skilled old-timers are bound to be disappointed. But if you take out luck, newbies have nothing to look forward to... So short and somewhat luck-affected leagues have their purpose -- they help bring newbies to get into spirit of competition and have their skill -- and their luck -- tested against more skilled opponents again and again (and that's the most fun way for newbie to gain some skill for himself, don't you know). Some random ideas I've had after a bit of league racing and death racing. Sorry if they are old, oft-discussed, and somehow non-feasible ideas, I certainly haven't read all of the forums yet  .
a) Some rare (once per game year), with the best awards in the game, event would be nice. Maybe with special title (seen in lobby, like marshals) given to the winner. Pro event, where best players come together along with newbies, something that is looked forward to and that is talked about after for many weeks. Something like Faster Pussycat death race courtesy of goat starer (thanks for organizing that, btw!), but officially sponsored. b) Like procyon112 said, pro league(s) would be nice. I've seen one pro event in 5 leagues I've been part of. I would have thought at least half of leagues would be fully pro. Why not? (Well, one "why not" I see -- so newbies like me wouldn't be excluded. But atm I don't have any incentive to build and own race cars except for the fact of ownership itself. Pro leagues would help with that -- I know there are many pro events, but what these give except hassle to build/repair cars, and cash, which I have too much already?) c) Why there's no rare engine prizes for finishing top-3 in race leagues? d) Why there's no exclusive race chassis you can get only by winning particular league? Would be cool imho. And bring more loot obsessed players into league play .
e) The game might not be big enough (even in all-inclusive leagues there's not enough players to compete against, for my liking), but still -- it would be cool if there was some sort of progression between leagues. A few newbie-friendly leagues, one or two really exclusive leagues you'd have to work to get into. One idea might be that you'd need to win/get particular number of points in one league to get invitation into another league (optionally, with losing access rights to first league after that). Another idea would be counting all points you get for finishing top-10 in league events, and have min and max point thresholds for joining particular leagues. That is all for now, I suppose. Thanks for reading and see you in the game. Swift/DMD. |
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Jake Nikodemus Posted Jan 6, 2012, 3:26 pm |
How to fix the leagues? Simply allow racers to do just one of the League races per week, or take the top score of the races completed in the week, rather than averaging. More people would race more league events. Would be pretty cool, because a loss needn't cost you the points for the week.
Now another related subject. I would like to do more town events, but I want to know WHO I am racing with. I know some have complained and thus the hidden gang names. I think knowing WHO you are racing against is a BIG part of ROLE-PLAY in town events. It's a fact there are some who would leave or join a race based on who is in the race. SO? What's the problem with that? SHould towns shelter those from the world of evan in town events? Yes a very good driver that I will only add points to by losing to them will be sad. Perhaps not showing up or pulling out of a league event should have some consequence in hopes of discouraging this, like an entry fee (esp with league events). In the REAL WORLD, no racer would drive in events without knowing who is in the race ahead of time. Also, we have destroyed a self-policing aspect of the community by allowing anon registration for events. It's one of those kooky things that makes no sense and drives me a bit more bananas nearly every time I want to participate in some sort of town event. In my own defense, I know this has been decided long ago, and I think we have tried it for long enough now to comment on it. I would like to inquire as to the statistics, are town events that HIDE gang names, more or less attended in comparison to events held BEFORE the change? I ask this because it seems obvious the more participants in these events, the greater reward potential. Also I think regional PvP has been in place for nearly a year, and while any changes would just be disruptive to the community at large, more play options might lure back some of those who have left. Similar to the way Scavenger mode has brought some veteran players back to the game, changing the PvP flag status to work throughout Evan, or work NO-WHERE, may cause the return of some of those turned off to the game after the change was made. With those that crave the hardest of hardcore having their own server to play on, I can't see how there would be too much opposition to such a move. I favor flags working everywhere. EVen with that said, the regionall PvP has had little to no effect on my gameplay yet.... well that's not true, I guess I waited another 9 months before I went south of GW for regular scouts. I know many left because they didn't like the way the forums were burning, it may be too late for them. Not sure how you fix that problem. Maybe it's just better to have those players gone. >shrug< -Jake 
ANd to the a-hole that blocked the only two pumps that werent prepay at the Mobil on Halsted this morning with his effing electric not-so-SMART-car.....My anger is eclipsed by pity. You are driving a coal powered car that couldnt survive a 5mph impact with a bumblebee. The whole thing shook like an leaf when he closed the door. Scary. |
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*Grograt* gary.r.horder@gmail.com Posted Jan 6, 2012, 4:05 pm |
PVP ? whats that.
Hidden gang names was a simple change to stop a problem that arose concerning a player / s griefing members ( new members mostly ) during a phase of griefing disruption. again a change that was made to stem a problem that now does not exist and jeusu this thread is nearly five years old 
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Jake Nikodemus Posted Jan 6, 2012, 4:19 pm |
Five year old thread ftw!
-Jake 
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FireFly Posted Jan 6, 2012, 4:29 pm |
The hidden gangs is a very reasonable thing that stemmed from two problems, just not one.
a) Most players would dodge a veteran racer, denying the poor bastard points just because he was better than them. b) Due to this, veterans were sniping events at the last minute because they really had no other option with the current point system. Old system cause trouble for everyone, just not the "poor rookies/less skilled people". Then again, I dont like how the leauge point system works anyway, but that's another discussion. |
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*Grograt* gary.r.horder@gmail.com Posted Jan 6, 2012, 4:37 pm |
Yeh, and what FF said | ||||||||
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Joel Autobaun Posted Jan 6, 2012, 4:51 pm |
First off, I'm curious Jake... why res an old thread that really has nothing to do with both your major topics. Yes i am gonna take you to task on it, even though you are not the only one to do this kind of thing. Take a topic and piggyback some baggage. That's one thing but to do it on an old thread as well is really strange to me. Do people just not have the gutz to make new topics about this stuff?
The PvP Flag. I dont think anyone has actively intercepted since BL went open PvP. As I predicted it WAS and IS an non-issue. Take away the PvP flag entirely I would bet my whole gang in the FL Glad arena it wouldn't make a lick #### of difference either. Anonymous entries came in shortly after COE where people would enter Fireengines(Lord Foul) and then some of us (ok me) would counter that at the last minute if possible. I do not care about anonymous entries or not. I think the current system helps newbies more overall though. |
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Juris Posted Jan 6, 2012, 5:30 pm |
Agree with Grog, FF, Joel - only reason someone would want to get rid of anonymous league entries would be to point-farm against noobs and scav gangs. Keep it as it is.
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Jake Nikodemus Posted Jan 6, 2012, 6:56 pm |
Well I jumped on this thread because of the title of the thread, sorry to offend.
I remember the arguments for anonymous entries, just not a big fan of the resolution. I'm wondering if this has helped make the Leagues better or worse as far as participation goes. As far as point farming, if you got rid of the anon, and kept the best score for the week, rather than the average score, the system would sort itself out pretty quickly, IMHO. It's fine if no one wants to revisit it, I'm just pointing out what I see as a major flaw in the town events. I really do not understand getting your undies in a bundle about my post. I felt it was fairly innocuous. If you'd like me to open new threads on the same or similar topics, well ok. Also I agree it would be more helpful to spread my comments over the forums as many items I discussed were not related to the thread. I hope you can see it in your hearts to forgive me for such misdeed. But then I am not the first to wander off topic, so you have a lot of tasking to do Joel. Uh yeah, I want to point farm newbs, thanks for letting me in on my motivations. Good mindread there Juris. Once again, my main point here is wondering if there has been more league participation or less since the change was made? -Jake please help me!!! I am too afraid to start a new thread!!! seriously. You people cant just have a discussion, instead you assign nefarious motives and try to discuss all but what I posted about? Really pretty poor way to discuss a topic. You dont have to reply if you dont like it. If you got nothing to add then just stop, ok? Geez guess that was mainly at Joel and Juris. Sorry everyone else. |
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*Grograt* gary.r.horder@gmail.com Posted Jan 6, 2012, 6:58 pm |
Oi wheres my buzzer dude
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*Longo* Posted Jan 6, 2012, 7:02 pm |
FYI, I hate the anon thing.
When I am doing leagues, I like the competition. I like fighting Joel, Latte etc in the ped leagues and I would rather not beat up on the new guys. Its not any fun. If I saw some newb competing, I would be more tempted to wait for one of the guys that competes with me....I wanna give my competition 2nd place, I dont want the new/unskilled guy to watch me point up and then leave him the scraps. Ive heard the comment...well if you want to fight your competition, just message them and make sure your in the same event...well some weeks its strategically a bad idea for one side to fight the other...and some just don't want to fight me... just my 2 cents on the matter(I do see the other side of this too). |
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Jake Nikodemus Posted Jan 6, 2012, 7:08 pm |
Its on the BL market. Ill resend the PW. -Jake |
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Joel Autobaun Posted Jan 6, 2012, 8:07 pm |
Kinda agree with you there. If you are top dog, yes you want to avoid having to fight guys you know are going to beat you, but if you are trying to get the top dog it's nice knowing when he's joined...except he will usually snipe at the last min...quite a frenzy at that last min -- i dont miss much. Jake, You have a point about jumping on you with others doing the same thing, It's nothing personal. I guess I'd rather have all these different topics separate, it drives me nuts and I felt I could beat you up as an example lol...sorry bud. |
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Juris Posted Jan 6, 2012, 8:39 pm |
Sorry Jake, I just remember what it was like when I was new (before the anon change). When I'd join a league event early it was like a vet summoning spell, since they'd all be waiting around to jump in the event at the last minute so you couldn't withdraw. It meant that people could rack up points fighting only noobs. I never complained about it and actually learned a lot - but I lost a lot of guys. Just figured that was your motivation.
If your motivation was because you actually want competition then ask people in the lobby if they want to do a league event. Then join and wait for people to jump in. If it doesn't work you can withdraw. I've done this a few time and usually end up competing against someone good who wants the bonus points, which is the way its supposed to work. Since the change I haven't seen anymore last-second ambush entries. |
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FireFly Posted Jan 6, 2012, 9:04 pm |
I just have to say it while the topic is up, the problem with the big leauges is...
First, second and maybe third in all the big leauges proboably never fought eachother... Is not that ####ed up when leauges are about competition? |
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Jake Nikodemus Posted Jan 6, 2012, 9:26 pm |
Thanks for discussing this and I humbly accept the apologies. I agree the fix has stopped the problem. While I do not really have a unique viewpoint to contribute, I've found that I usually pull out last minute because I DON'T know who I am facing. I would much rather take my chances with AI, than somebody with whom I am unfamiliar. Are there others like me?
Currently, if I was a good racer (I cant keep drivers alive, oh well) I would wait to see how many other PC gangs were in and then point farm them, rather than face the AI, because I couldnt get as much reward (points) racing against AI. Changing the rules of leagues in some way would make them feel more like leagues and make more sense than anon reg IMHO. Preregistration for leagues combined with reg fees ( I guess some leagues have this already?) might go a long way toward remedy. Attendance is also mandatory for leagues. You arent going to win if you skip a bunch of events and why should anybody have the right to jump in at the end of a league and play spoiler via point blocking the best performers in the league? I feel it's a bit intellectually dishonest to say the anon protects newbs because newbs really have no business expecting to compete in a league, especially one where you have to provide your own car. If protecting newbs was what we were trying to achieve, then ALL town events should be anonymous. This option would be easier to swallow in an RP sense and would eliminate what I see as an incongruity in the game. If it's good for some town events to be anon reg, then it should be good for all events to be anon reg. Joel the subject jumping in forums makes me a bit crazy too, I'll work to prevent that kinda stream-of-conscious posting, because you are right its annoying and a bit selfish. I probably would have been more mellow if not for that damn smart car incident. Dude took up the only two stalls that werent prepay and he had an electric car..... grrrrrrrr. How the hell did he stretch that damn car to take up two pumps? Who the hell knows. What a douche.
-Jake |
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PA Racers Posted Jan 6, 2012, 11:23 pm |
In the REAL WORLD, no racer would drive in events without knowing who is in the race ahead of time. Also, we have destroyed a self-policing aspect of the community by allowing anon registration for events. It's one of those kooky things that makes no sense and drives me a bit more bananas nearly every time I want to participate in some sort of town event. ANd to the a-hole that blocked the only two pumps that werent prepay at the Mobil on Halsted this morning with his effing electric not-so-SMART-car.....My anger is eclipsed by pity. You are driving a coal powered car that couldnt survive a 5mph impact with a bumblebee. The whole thing shook like an leaf when he closed the door. Scary.[/quote] Hummm? Is this Halstead located in PA? Just wondering. I do disagree with the real world example, as I do race Dirt Latemodels and IMCA mods here in PA, and NY. I travel to the local, and not so local races at times, and never know who might show up till you get there. Most times you have a pretty good idea who will show up but ya never know. Point is ya race whoever shows up. I enter the races I run on here based on the track and car, if they are ones I like I enter if not I pass. I enjoy racing with the better racing vets myself, I prefer a good close race anytime over one where the winner is half a lap ahead or more. |
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*JeeTeeOh* Posted Jan 7, 2012, 5:41 am |
I don't dislike the anonymous bit enough to have brought it up myself, but I do think it takes one important things from us: The opportunity to really get after the guy that's in front. I may not have a great chance of doing it, but I wanna try to take out the points leader (or anyone above me) because it helps my overall standing. Can't do that with the current system. | ||||||||
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JS Posted Jan 7, 2012, 12:36 pm |
Yes, the idea that the best racers/players in the game need rules to help them win points because it's not "fair" that people try to avoid them is just really silly when you think about it. |
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*JeeTeeOh* Posted Jan 7, 2012, 3:59 pm |
I agree. The more I think about it the more I believe the real issue is 'sniping'. And unfortunately I don't see a way to eliminate it. BUT.... It could be made less strategically effective. I propose a bonus system based on registration time. It would be in addition to, not a replacement for, the current system: Register within 10 minutes of start: No bonus 15 minutes: +1 point 20 minutes: +2 points more than 20 minutes: +3 points. If participants' names were no longer hidden and this system were in place, sniping would be far less common. People willing to "put themselves out there" for others to challenge would be rewarded, and competition would increase. Of this I'm certain. |
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Jake Nikodemus Posted Jan 7, 2012, 6:13 pm |
Wow, that is brilliant. -Jake 
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*Longo* Posted Jan 7, 2012, 7:14 pm |
What do I do for the 20 minutes waiting for my match? Alot of us don't have the time to stare at the computer for 20 minutes and wait. | ||||||||
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Juris Posted Jan 7, 2012, 7:38 pm |
Just because you are signed up for an event doesn't prevent you from doing other events. You could sign up, solo scout, call TO, do event, finish scout. Great idea JTO but probably only 1 bonus point for early sign up and only if another human joins. | ||||||||
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Iron Wraith Posted Jan 7, 2012, 8:10 pm |
If the leagues all have predetermined events there would be nothing to stop you signing up days in advance.
Part of the game is not merely scoring points for winning, but trying to reduce your opponents point average by pushing them down the placings. That allows for interesting things like no-hopers being paid by the big leaguers to sabotage their opposition. "Don't worry about placing kid, take out TEAM-X for me and I'll pay you $20,000." You could end up in an exciting bidding war (play it for fun people). Either every entrant should be anonymous (AI as well) or no-one should be. Do we really all turn up to events 5 minutes before they start and manage to get our vehicles on the track unseen (under a blanket maybe?). This is probably more akin to a medieveal joust (where showing who you are is the main point) than a modern amateur dirt race league where sportsmanship is hopefully the order of the day. The rewards for placing highly in the league are too much to allow an elite to dictate the mechnaism by which winnings are determined. |
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*JeeTeeOh* Posted Jan 7, 2012, 11:28 pm |
I disagree. One point isn't enough to motivate anybody, especially when competing against even a single human opponent gets you two points. I'm pretty sure the 1-2-3 system is well-balanced, i.e., it will reward those willing to announce their intent to compete while not being a primary factor in determining the eventual champion. These points should also not be contingent on another player joining. If you're there, you're there. I really think that for once I've hit on an idea that is balanced and sound right from the get-go. It works for pros and noobs alike. If you want to snipe an event with a lot of players, your potential points will still exceed their registration bonus if you win, but your margin will be smaller. It's fair. It's simple. It'll work. |
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Joel Autobaun Posted Jan 7, 2012, 11:31 pm |
You guys sure dont think stuff through huh? A few of you seem ready to pass such a thing through on first glance. You and your friends join early and score big regardless. That system is ripe for the kind of abuse Alo/Xander used to do. Basically for league events you shouldn't be able to back out period. Perhaps after you join nothing is anonymous anymore...but perhaps you could change driver/vehicle? Oh and you are locked in...no backing out. |
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*JeeTeeOh* Posted Jan 8, 2012, 12:25 am |
I don't know who Alo/Xander are (were), but if anonymous registration is removed it becomes pretty easy for the community to spot the people involved and, errrm, address the issue man to man. I like to think the people who would abuse the system in that way are in the minority (which probably places me somewhere between Forrest Gump and Pollyanna, but hey, I try to see the good), which means the guns of the majority could go a long way to convincing them that gaming the system is on the "bad idea" list. Help me out with the "can't back out" suggestion... I'm not seeing the purpose of that one. |
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Joel Autobaun Posted Jan 8, 2012, 12:32 am |
I am in a unique position to tell you the community cannot "sort out" anyone, for anything. I will admit I am talking some hearsay about alo/xander, but my impression was there was #### all anyone could do about it. The fact is the community cannot stomp someone, we tried to do it to Firefly and he thrived. |
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*Bastille* Posted Jan 8, 2012, 1:13 am |
Anonymous Racers:
Most possible, just hide behind the coffee stand or dress up like the Stig. The car would be known though, no doubt about that. Cars should always be known, can't hide that anyway shape or form. Racers could be anonymous. You may not know who the car belongs to, but you should be able to see what it is. I share Longo's POV here a bit, I've not competed more than competed, because the person I saw in the event was new. Having Anon entry actually eliminates this issue for me. Bonus Points for Entrants: Nah, that ain't gunna work, I agree with Joel. I see that causing way more fuss than fixing. It makes a simple situation really complicated. Iron Wraith is on it. Racing for The Mob anyone? My (most ridiculous) Proposal: Top 5 in the league go to the finals. Whatever that may be. The best would win more often. The newbs would have no chance in hell unless they pay the best to take out the best. Overall, I think there is a greater % of the player base competing in the leagues right now. Not sure about that though as I do it rarely. No Bastillian gets up once a month to do something at a scheduled time, sheesh. |
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Jake Nikodemus Posted Jan 8, 2012, 2:02 am |
Did Joel just make the case for "the community cannot police itself"? Lemme pick my jaw up off the floor. I hate to hear that. Bastille and Joel have interesting counterpoint to the bonus points system. Perhaps bonus points system in place IS the problem to begin with?
If there were no way you could farm opponents for bonus points then the problem is gone, right? -Jake |
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*Bastille* Posted Jan 8, 2012, 2:44 am |
I guess the bonus points are kinda needed, there has to be some way of separating the scores a bit. 
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Lord Foul Posted Jan 8, 2012, 3:11 am |
Correct, it has turned out better than expected. There is one other reason why the change took place, the leagues were dying a slow death due to a lack of participation on all fronts. A long while back the research was done, presented to Sam and the change went in on a trial basis, then monitored for a full season. The end result is it brought the leagues back to life and participation doubled or even tripled in some of the leagues since the change, thus the change stayed in as it proved beneficial to the game overall. If you really want to face tough competition in the leagues and not just the new guys, ask in the lobby. You can also pm the vets you see there or join the event and maybe a vet will join at the last minute and then you will have some competition. I can’t speak for Joel or any of the other Vets out there, but in all my years here I do not recall one player coming up to me and saying “Foul, I want to face you in the major league event coming up because I want to face some real competition, not just the newer guys.” Most players are not stupid, true they may want to have some “competition” as the AI can easily be beaten under most conditions, but many players want to win more than compete against a tougher foe. Especially when there’s a nice rare prize that can be obtained for placing well. I’ve seen players pound their chests before saying “me want competition” , but at the same time see those same players avoid all the vets and take a fall every week/day for a friend/ally in some league so their friend/ally can get the league points needed to beat the vet instead of competing against the vet. If a player is serious about wanting to face tougher competition, back it up with actions, not just with words. |
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*JeeTeeOh* Posted Jan 8, 2012, 4:38 pm |
Personally, I'm not talking about competition for competition's sake here. I'm looking for a way to know when the frontrunners in a league are entered in an event so I can get after them.
Well, try to get after 'em and get shot to hell is more accurate. From what I'm hearing though the anonymous entry system seems the best way to avoid abuse, given our community's alleged inability to deal with abusers on the track. Not such a big deal for me; I almost never manage to make all the events in a league series anyway. |
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*Longo* Posted Jan 8, 2012, 6:19 pm |
“Foul, I want to face you in the major league event coming up because I want to face some real competition, not just the newer guys.” Ped Combat and Paint League is where I will be. |
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Joel Autobaun Posted Jan 8, 2012, 6:58 pm |
Maybe if you are a league leader(1-3?) you cant be anonymous. |
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*Tango* Posted Jan 8, 2012, 8:34 pm |
[quote=Lord Foul]
If you really want to face tough competition in the leagues and not just the new guys, ask in the lobby. [/quote] This isn't used nearly enough. I've done some events just because good people were drumming up support in the lobby (i.e. good Rally or DR in 15 minutes...). Like everything it's more interesting with more people. |
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Jake Nikodemus Posted Jan 8, 2012, 11:41 pm |
[quote=PA Racers]
In the REAL WORLD, no racer would drive in events without knowing who is in the race ahead of time. Also, we have destroyed a self-policing aspect of the community by allowing anon registration for events. It's one of those kooky things that makes no sense and drives me a bit more bananas nearly every time I want to participate in some sort of town event. ANd to the a-hole that blocked the only two pumps that werent prepay at the Mobil on Halsted this morning with his effing electric not-so-SMART-car.....My anger is eclipsed by pity. You are driving a coal powered car that couldnt survive a 5mph impact with a bumblebee. The whole thing shook like an leaf when he closed the door. Scary.[/quote] Hummm? Is this Halstead located in PA? Just wondering. I do disagree with the real world example, as I do race Dirt Latemodels and IMCA mods here in PA, and NY. I travel to the local, and not so local races at times, and never know who might show up till you get there. Most times you have a pretty good idea who will show up but ya never know. Point is ya race whoever shows up. I enter the races I run on here based on the track and car, if they are ones I like I enter if not I pass. I enjoy racing with the better racing vets myself, I prefer a good close race anytime over one where the winner is half a lap ahead or more. [/quote] I've been around racing all my life, and while it's true you never know who might show up from week to week, I've never heard of racing strangers, or having no idea who is there. The only race style I've seen where strangers race each other is in spectator drags, where race fans race each other. Most tracks have time trials. This clues you in on who is there that night. Then there are several heat races before the feature. As a fan, I can tell who is there before any events simply by looking at the lorries in the back lot or pits. Drivers and teams are far more plugged in to who is racing than a mere fan, in most cases. Racing is something my family has been involved in one way or the other for generations. Its only in the lowest level of racing, like go-karts, you might run up against a completely unproven stranger. The higher the level of racing, the less likely it is to drive against an unproven stranger. This is because each time a driver gets behind the wheel, might be his last. In the highest levels of racing (with the fastest and most expensive equipment) everyone knows everyone. In the Evan race leagues, each event is held after one month of game-time preparation, which is the same at the track prep time for Indy 500 and Daytona 500. This means that the league events are big events, not just a weekly feature. My point: You know who is racing before the race starts in almost every case. Secondary point: This is a safety feature of racing that allows teams and racers to determine the level of risk they would be likely to face from opponents. If the current system is 'good for the game' well then sobeit. I think DW is a great game and I want a whole lot more people to play and love the game as much as I do. I don't generally lobby for changes to suit my play style to better my own fortunes in the game, or restrict anyone's fun. I do appreciate the discussion, hopefully something can be done to make it more RP worthy, but if simulation is what we are left with, I am ok with that too. (geez all this BS from me about RP, guess I should get in on that crap in the forums! =D) So once again, lets make all registration anon, even the NPC gangs and all town events. I think it may be giving too much info indicate when human gangs are involved. This way the only way a racer could drum up bonus points would be to drum up interest and get a bunch of humans to race against. Seriously though, if we are changing code because of a few griefers or exploiters, isn't it like passing the patriot act? Yes, the terrorists (griefers/exploiters) win, and we lose more freedoms. -Jake
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FireFly Posted Jan 9, 2012, 5:23 am |
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*Bastille* Posted Jan 9, 2012, 8:30 am |
Jake quoted PA about Real world racing...
I definitely get that in the real world this to be true, and Im not involved in racing in any fashion other than watching it on TV or playing it on my Personal Computation Device. In Real world racing theres lots of rules and regulations and registrations and all sorts of jazz to even the playing field. In Evan, More or less anything goes, the one main rule, whether or not you can drive around backwards and shoot people or not. This is at your throat, slash your tires, stick mutant rats in the back seat. It would be most possible to change the driver I would think. There might be some way of making that interesting; posting the drivers name of original registration and giving the option to bluff another driver in. If you get found out you play with the original driver. |
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Leonine Posted Mar 20, 2014, 11:49 pm |
Can we have a new Deathrace Leauge?
Something like the Northern Semi-Pro Combat, 5+ weeks, a variety of towns each week, some events track cars, others B.Y.O! Heck, do this for straight Racing too! Very little programmer work, just some new rosters! |
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musashi_san Posted Mar 21, 2014, 12:56 am |
other than byo how is this not coe? |