Factions and Per-Town Rep./Fame, Observations & Discussion
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*sam* Posted Feb 12, 2010, 12:38 pm |
This is a sticky thread for Observations & Discussion on the Factions and Per-Town Rep./Fame system. There's a separate thread in the Bugs forum for bugs.. | ||||||||
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*Longo* Posted Feb 12, 2010, 3:32 pm |
How do you change your home town?
Also, on the towns page, the last sentence of the description tells what factions the town is allies with. Can you make this faction linkable? EDIT - Also I cant pick a faction scouting from camp. Will this be changed? |
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*sam* Posted Feb 12, 2010, 3:48 pm |
I have just updated the Community Comment for this: basically, you need high rep/fame in the new town, plus plenty of gangers stationed there (even temporarily).
It should be already.. and works for me. What happens when you click?
When you scout, it will avoid (if possible) matching you versus a friendly faction. Not sure if explicit picking of a faction is needed? |
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*jimmylogan* Posted Feb 12, 2010, 3:56 pm |
Will we need to know what faction the enemy is? Or will a friendly faction always accept a truce in this event? That's the only reason I can think of hunting a particular one - to be "in character." |
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*Longo* Posted Feb 12, 2010, 4:20 pm |
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simonmaxhill Posted Feb 12, 2010, 6:35 pm |
Be nice to have some pirates in FL aligned with traders, or mechants or some such.
They'd be similar to BHs, but less organized/focused. Essentially they'd be gangs organized or bribed by the Merchants/Civs/Deathrace Mafia that are sent down to the eastern wastes to disrupt pirate groups headed north, raid slavers, seize rare chassis for use in on the tracks of SS... What would be -really- cool would be if the faction/alignment of one or two pirate gangs in FL were to randomly change each week, to represent political meddling and influence peddling by the northern towns. This would preserve the flavor of FL (no traders, wild town) while allowing players stationed there (me, ferinstance) to scout in town while building up a local rep. |
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Marrkos Posted Feb 12, 2010, 9:27 pm |
Should Courier missions, both 'Noticeboard' and 'Advertise for', include the Faction they are being performed for, or is it assumed that only friendly (and neutral?) missions would be made available to you?
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*sam* Posted Feb 12, 2010, 9:34 pm |
It seemed unnecessary to make courier missions assigned to a faction. (Assassination and escort missions, however, are). |
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*sam* Posted Feb 12, 2010, 9:35 pm |
The idea of a few rival merchant-pirates and maybe red-pirates makes good sense..if you can think of a few gang names and brief descriptions, I'll create 'em 
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Marrkos Posted Feb 12, 2010, 9:44 pm |
Does this mean they don't have an effect on any of the reps? |
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darthspanky Posted Feb 12, 2010, 9:49 pm |
will camp owners be able to sell goods in camp markets to factions there allied with? then we could just move out of towns where we have low rep. then hunt the town gangs we dont like? | ||||||||
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Parapsycho Posted Feb 12, 2010, 10:00 pm |
Can we make Northern Mutant Alliance targetable in SS? Or do you have to have a certain fame first? I dont mind taking out some Anarchists first to prove my mettle, but would eventually love to take out some mutant scum... 
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*sam* Posted Feb 12, 2010, 10:00 pm |
We're considering that, yes. There's a whole package of ideas related to making camps more useful that is likely to happen. |
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Groove Champion Posted Feb 12, 2010, 10:27 pm |
I posted this in the patch announcement thread but I think it belongs here with the other suggestions:
Have voluntary participation in gladiatorial events boost reputation in FL. I think being forced to participate in gladiatorial events should remain neutral. |
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*Tinker* Posted Feb 13, 2010, 12:02 am |
Just wanted to share my first 3 scouts since the change
1 Gates, Scouted BL on a group scout, killed 3 gangsters of a 900 famed anarchist gang and got "scorned" in my rep. 2 scouted again in Bl, same target same squad, killed no one personally, (there was a lot of redding going-on), and got "detested" by anarchists , and "Appreciated" by civs and traders, and got "recognized" in BL. 3 got a return after that, we lost 2 cars and someone died, the rest escaped and, and we were considered overal "winners", yet my local fame in BL went back to "anonymous" edit: oh and gates fees in BL went from $600 to $580 and back to $600 |
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*Rezeak* reecestensel@hotmail.co.uk Posted Feb 13, 2010, 12:03 am |
I also noticed my morale went down after encounter 3 which tink mentioned | ||||||||
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*Tinker* Posted Feb 13, 2010, 2:34 am |
Do travel encounters affect your standings in factions?
Just wondering because i slaughtered 3 peds from the bantonville militia (Civs) and it didn't seem to affect my standings with them at GW gates. |
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*Longo* Posted Feb 13, 2010, 2:49 am |
Ive done about 5 -6 scouts and my faction hasnt moved 1 bit. | ||||||||
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*Urban Decay* Posted Feb 13, 2010, 3:17 am |
Did 2 in Elms, Pirataka Dislikes me, Hit Hero in SS again somehow, and am anon everywhere. So far only getting more and more hated by Pirataka. | ||||||||
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*Tinker* Posted Feb 13, 2010, 11:30 am |
Strangely my fame in BL went up to recognized again (gate fees down to $590), noticed it after that travel to GW from SS, at gates bantonville militia (civs), and a group scout in SS against Colt-45 (anarchists)
Also if we are detested from the Anarchist faction in BL does it mean that all pirates will hate us in other towns, (and beat you up in FL for instance)? And will give them a better reason to kill our crews after a lost scout/travel? |
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Rick #Red# Ryder Posted Feb 15, 2010, 5:15 am |
I had a cool/interesting/scary thing happen tonight.
I red deaded a couple NPCs in a resigned vehicle earlier today. Vengance and all of that. (helps to read the patch notes before playing. ;-) Later on I played another arena match. My town fame was at the second level of positive (I think), yet two seperate gangs (neither the one I shot up) chased me around three quarters of the arena, and after I resigned still drove about five turns through and past oncoming fire from two other cars cars to ram me with intent three times each . Didn't get me though, naya, I had spikes too. :EG: Boy did I pick a bad day to stop RPing the nice guy. Good fun though. Anyway, it was a very clear message. I hope I'm not a marked man now. :chuckle: Is there a way to check your relations with town event gangs? Followup: Awesome Sam. |
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FireFly Posted Feb 15, 2010, 6:26 am |
Civs Admired
Merchants Admired Anarchists Detested Mutants Admired Slavers Neutral Badlands Truckstop Unappreciated Morgan Neutral Deathrace Mafia Appreciated Evan Reds Neutral Seems to be working
And yeah, is there any way to view what the racers think of you? |
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*Tinker* Posted Feb 15, 2010, 8:18 am |
don't understand why the mutants like you if your on such good terms with their primary enemies |
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Rick #Red# Ryder Posted Feb 15, 2010, 12:20 pm |
So Sam, if I slip 'em a fiver do you think they may lighten up?
With the 'pay this gang' feature. The relations interface is really clean looking btw, imo. GJ |
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*Tinker* Posted Feb 16, 2010, 10:52 am |
I pretty sure i was anonymous in FL until today when i did a scout against the reds, but now i'm recognized and scorned... which doesn't sound right as they are FL's enemies
although i did scout FL yesterday and got anarchists, and escaped but did get a return against wildfire also and auto escaped all the cars but one, but don't recall it changed my fame then. Also just now i processed a return, but nothing happened, had to processed again and got western mayhem (my preferred faction are the reds) S179193 brown-pants motoring Vs The Scarlet Outriders Smokey Hills 2010-02-16 10:11:24 2010-02-16 11:11:24 S179052 brown-pants motoring Vs Wildfire Gates of Firelight 2010-02-15 21:43:35 2010-02-15 22:43:35 |
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Flaming savage Posted Feb 16, 2010, 10:55 am |
I had killed 31 members of the King Cobras and got them twice during travel. On second encounter I was ambushed by 4 vampires and lost but they only murdered 1/2 of my crew. | ||||||||
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*sam* Posted Feb 16, 2010, 11:12 am |
I'm undecided about this. It seems like it could be too easy to manipulate your faction reps that way? |
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*sam* Posted Feb 16, 2010, 11:24 am |
Your town-gang relations are listed at the bottom of your reputation page. It looks like Steam Army are so far your only enemies, Rick. |
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Flaming savage Posted Feb 16, 2010, 11:42 am |
What about; if you 'slip 'em a fiver' they might take it but not lighten up on you. Ther could be like a 1 in 10 chance of them lightining up and that chance could get bigger the more you pay. | ||||||||
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*sam* Posted Feb 16, 2010, 11:52 am |
Town fames/reps are synchronised with their primary factions once per day, so you may see a lag in the town's response to your good/evil deeds. I checked S179193 and the faction-rep effects were tiny. It's possibly yesterday's effects that are making you scorned in FL? edit: actually, the Reds aren't FL's enemy. FL is an anarchist town, not a slaver town. |
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*Wolfsbane* Posted Feb 16, 2010, 11:59 am |
I agree giving money is too easy. Maybe each faction should have a different way to get into its good books?
Deathrace Mafia - Donate several identical cars built to one of the race or deathrace templates. Yes, I'm going to keep pushing this idea. Civs - Donate fuel in Elms or SS, or take trader escort missions north. Texan - Donate Food/Water in Texan, or take trader escort missions south Anarchists - maybe donate combat-worthy cars? I think FF had a thread about this. Mutants - Donate Food/Water/Fuel in Shanty. Slavers - Take prisoners in combat, and sell them to the slavers (either in Firelight, or in any town where Butane/FLMH are nearby). Can't think of interesting ones for BL or the reds. Maybe the reds want shipments of hand weapons? |
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*sam* Posted Feb 16, 2010, 12:01 pm |
That's a nice idea wolf!
In terms of town fame, I was thinking you could trade Hero Points for fame. Maybe this represents you parading around with pirate heads on a stick or something.. |
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*goat starer* Posted Feb 16, 2010, 12:06 pm |
we want medicines for our health programmes and books for schools |
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JS Posted Feb 16, 2010, 12:12 pm |
It appears there is no way to make the Mutants like you while playing a "good guy" who is looking out for civilization. Anyone see a way to accomplish that? | ||||||||
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*Wolfsbane* Posted Feb 16, 2010, 12:20 pm |
The mutants like me just fine, and all I've been doing is killing anarchists. Lots of anarchists, admittedly. | ||||||||
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*Tinker* Posted Feb 16, 2010, 12:21 pm |
Ah damn crap! forgot about that, so any idea on keeping a good rep in FL? Also I'm asking because I got a vested intrest, got a bunch of muties training there, and you know how fragile they are, don't want to get them weakening before they get out the town's gates  or has psi training been moved down south to Shanty?
edit:
If i'm understanding this correctly, town fame/rep is synced with the local gangs? Asking because i'm detested from the anarchist faction from scouting in BL and SS and I was anonymous (in FL) till today |
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Rick #Red# Ryder Posted Feb 16, 2010, 12:59 pm |
You're the pro, I'll be good with whatever you decide. For newbs however this could really become another thing on that pile of stuff crushing them. I know I red-deaded lots of NPCs when I was new figuring it'd damage their ability to compete with me in the locals. I also killed a ton on accident. :thinking on it: |
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*sam* Posted Feb 16, 2010, 1:06 pm |
Well.. the best way would be to have the Anarchists like you. But that makes most of the other towns hard to operate in.
Actually, I was wrong saying that fame/rep is synchronised. Since fame is only held per-town and not per-rep, it's only rep. that synchronises. It synchronises with the primary faction that the town is affiliated with (which is anarchists, in the case of FL). If you're anonymous in FL, it doesn't really matter what the anarchist faction thinks of you, because you're still unknown in FL. When you become better known in FL, your rep. with the anarchist faction becomes important. If you make sure to stay unknown in FL, you should be pretty safe from beatings by the locals, even if you're detested by the Anarchists. |
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Rick #Red# Ryder Posted Feb 16, 2010, 11:11 pm |
How about time based degradation for in town gang rep?
Or a once a month tithe? Either will need documentation. Perhaps limit degradation to the first month of a sub/signup, making it relatively rapid. This'll give the newb a bit of a chance to recover from a playstyle he finds may not work for him. Human players can be expected to develop a bit of tolerance for newb errors, why not the A.I.? :shrug: As far as exploit I'm of the mind that if it's not hurting another player who cares. I know that differs much from others view though. ---- In my case I've been playing relatively nice with these guys that hate me. I haven't fired on any more resigned cars from them (with the exception of one one turn accident, no breach though) yet I've still seen no apparent change in relations. I suppose to be more clear, I've been ruthless until they resign, then careful. I've only had four or five opportunities in DRs, and haven't been seeing them in the arena lately. I'll keep an eye on it but at moment it 'feels' like a more permanent thing than I'd expect. (I am sooo loving watching these guys flip out on me every few matches. As if they're running a 'zerk script. This is a really cool feature imo for several reasons. :grin: ) |
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Lord Foul Posted Feb 17, 2010, 12:22 am |
How do leagues, ladders etc.. that have completed affect your fame with the town they are held in?
Example: If someone wins or places within the fame bonus distribution at the end of the SS death race league, where does the fame go? Town? Racer gangs? global? All of the above? |
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Joel Autobaun Posted Feb 17, 2010, 12:48 am |
Beatings by locals? Entire scout party put to death after surrenders? Sam please point out the dire consequences (currently!) of this rep system! |
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Mad Mike Posted Feb 17, 2010, 6:04 am |
detested by anarchists and lost a scout in texan and they murdered one of my crew Flora Barker(murdered by the enemy at the end of the combat) appears in events diary...
kinda brings back the old system if you surrender you had the roll of the dice decide if you made it back to town, eaten by animals, or joined the NPC gang.... so now we have double jeopardy when we surrender or are demoralized... if we make it past the choice of being murdered we fight the wilderness mutant creatures... if you scout in evan you will be detested by someone, there is no way around it so we all will be put in this double jeopardy mode by some NPC gang if we get demoed or surrender... |
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Lord Foul Posted Feb 17, 2010, 6:25 am |
Yeah, that does kinda suck. Maybe if they let you live you get a free ride back to town? Or it's assumed you managed to jury rig one of your beat up cars and make it back to town? You could even say they let you live and allowed you to radio back to base to send out a car to pick you up. I wonder if we get anything for letting captured NPCs live? rep with that gang? |
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*Tinker* Posted Feb 17, 2010, 8:15 am |
Mike did they randomly murder someone or was it your only gangster in the event?
I don't think they would have space for a bunch of gangers, even one or two is dicey... but yea being hunted by a whole faction is really scary, especially the anarchists because they are huge Would make more sense if it was on a per gang basis, like that you could avoid a certain gang easier and lay low for a bit if you wanted, or would feel the pressure going against them, (kinda like your own private Butane scout). Wouldn't that enrich the game too without going to extreems? |
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*sam* Posted Feb 17, 2010, 9:51 am |
This happens already, weekly. But much more slowly than the faction reps. |
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*sam* Posted Feb 17, 2010, 9:52 am |
Track/arena events affect your fame in the town they're held in. So getting famous in SS is much easier than elsewhere.. we may need mechanisms to make it more feasible elsewhere. |
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*sam* Posted Feb 17, 2010, 9:54 am |
I have done- read my announcements post. BTW it's very unlikely that the entire scout party would be put to death. |
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*sam* Posted Feb 17, 2010, 9:57 am |
This is of course the single most severe consequence in the new faction/rep system. I'm happy to discuss balancing it, of course. Perhaps you get a chance to buy your way out at a large price? |
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Serephe Posted Feb 17, 2010, 10:02 am |
No way. This is fantastic. Really, we needed more death in the game. Perhaps a ped battle at the end of a loss would be nice, though that would be difficult to balance.
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*Grograt* gary.r.horder@gmail.com Posted Feb 17, 2010, 10:48 am |
If you lose, you lose getting a chance at running like a girl and facing creatures is a bonus, being taken to FL is another.
But loss should have some permanent effect sometimes, and ganger death, however hurtful it is ( i would not be happy ) at least is fitting of this so called environment. |
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Serephe Posted Feb 17, 2010, 10:54 am |
Agreed with Grogs even though he smells like some strange smoke. | ||||||||
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*Wolfsbane* Posted Feb 17, 2010, 11:24 am |
Maybe if they don't utterly hate you they only kill one of your gangers as an example to the others? Maybe the most skilled? | ||||||||
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*sam* Posted Feb 17, 2010, 11:41 am |
Currently, the way this works is that the more they hate you, the more chance of characters getting killed. There's never (currently) more than 40% chance of any individual character being killed. | ||||||||
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Serephe Posted Feb 17, 2010, 12:07 pm |
I think they should have a higher chance to execute you if you did more damage to them in the specific event that you lost, also. If you blew apart the heads of a few of their mates, they should be quite irate. | ||||||||
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*Grograt* gary.r.horder@gmail.com Posted Feb 17, 2010, 2:09 pm |
I am finding it hard to understand how a faction such as the Civs accepts its members executing numerous amount of Pirates in one go, i know its a harsh land, i know there are no laws, just isn't that more the behaviour of the anarchists and slavers
How can gangs affiliated to the Civs get away with mass slaughter without some kind of recompense off course there may be and i might have missed it  and yes it isnt much different to staying and redding the npc but !!!!!
as to chance of death 40% sounds reasonable to me if penalties are already in use for actions taken in event and rep. I am finding all this faction info interesting and sometimes a little hard to swallow as a player that has never been into any other mmo |
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Mad Mike Posted Feb 17, 2010, 3:14 pm |
since i purposely red the NPCs in events to get the rest to surrender I suppose it is likely they would put all my losing gang members to death...
I dont think there is an easy way to balance this. the more you hunt a particular faction the more you will kill and the more they will kill of you and want to kill of you. I like the idea of a ransom.. i think it would be the only way to balance it. |
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*Grograt* gary.r.horder@gmail.com Posted Feb 17, 2010, 3:21 pm |
It is being offered to ' slaughter' NPC after a scout has finished that is concerning me | ||||||||
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Mad Mike Posted Feb 18, 2010, 1:27 am |
yes, and when i get done on a mega scout I had 46 that I could have slaughtered. That actually made me twinge a little.. could I line up 46 people and kill them one by one or mow them down with a heavy machine gun from some vehicles?
to admit I did press it once LOL
probably why they murdered my best scout in texan from a lost scout... |
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Serephe Posted Feb 18, 2010, 2:04 am |
I want the option in PvP.
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*Grograt* gary.r.horder@gmail.com Posted Feb 18, 2010, 10:29 am |
Jeez thats a barrel of worms your openin' there sere' lol | ||||||||
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Serephe Posted Feb 18, 2010, 10:42 am |
Nobody loves me, everybody hates me, I'm gonna go eat some worms. | ||||||||
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*sam* Posted Feb 18, 2010, 11:00 am |
This is a good point, Grog. What should be done here..? - if you are positive rep. with certain factions such as the Civs and you use the new slaughter option against their enemies, you lose rep. rather than gain it with the Civs? - NPC members of certain factions such as the Civs never use Slaughter, but always force a ransom from their most hated enemies instead? edit: if we add rules like these, which factions are we talking about that should have 'high morals'. I'm guessing it's only the Civs and the Reds? |
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FireFly Posted Feb 18, 2010, 11:24 am |
I'd say, in the case of reds, its entirely dependent on what kind of faction their enemy is, lets say merchants, they should slaughter them without a second thought... just a thought... | ||||||||
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betterlucky Posted Feb 18, 2010, 11:39 am |
Stalin and Mao weren't exactly shy about doing in the opposition...
You could argue that merchant would be more interested in bounties than revenge... not that the more barbarous gangs would ever pay up. |
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*goat starer* Posted Feb 18, 2010, 12:53 pm |
a evans largest red gang we would slaughter:
merchants slavers but would be winning the hearts and minds of the rest ps. the evan reds are not right wing dictatorships like the 'communist' authoritarian regimes of the 20th century. So the stalin and mao things are hardly relevant. we are pre revolution.. havnt had time to be corrupted by luxury and power... think more che and castro in revolutionary period - willing to be mean but in a cause! |
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Mad Mike Posted Feb 18, 2010, 3:02 pm |
just attacked by the purification. i did slaughter an ironmonger party once so i can understand why the civs would not like it...
but this opens the door if the anarchists slaughter crews after battle then wouldnt the towns pretty much bann them and not allow them in to buy anything like cars, etc??? and then the ironmongers being anarchists traders, who would buy from them in ss.. so they shouldnt even be in the area because there is no money... |
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FireFly Posted Feb 18, 2010, 3:07 pm |
Mike, someone needs to supply the pirates, right? | ||||||||
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Mad Mike Posted Feb 19, 2010, 6:50 am |
of course the friendly ironmongers will be happy to supply the other anarchists because no one else will.
its nice we can hunt traders and not have the consequence we had before. |
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Mad Mike Posted Feb 23, 2010, 3:09 am |
Ive had a bad bit of luck and at the end of each scout I have lost my highest character was murdered each and every time out of 3 crew.
This last one was a camp scout. There is no way to avoid making a faction detest you so there is no way to avoid getting at least one character murdered... I remember sam saying he wasnt going to bring back the survival roll of making it back to town, dying of thirst, eaten by creatures, joining the pirates after the battle with the wilderness creatures. with our characters getting murdered seems like it is back in a different form. |
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Joel Autobaun Posted Feb 23, 2010, 3:51 am |
Honestly - I just stopped scouting after I first heard these reports. I'd rather have my people killed by lucky shots from players in PvP. |
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Mad Mike Posted Feb 23, 2010, 4:20 am |
entire scouting crew of 3 murdered
Event ID S181293 and also thinking if you are scouting for bounties wouldnt you be considered murdering for bounties? and if you murder a group of pirates wouldnt that be the same as hunting for a bounty? who puts the bounties on a gang? would they consider you murdering since they wanted that gang murdered by putting a bounty on them? |
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*Grograt* gary.r.horder@gmail.com Posted Feb 23, 2010, 10:34 am |
This seems like a major worry for heavy scouters, as i have pulled back from scouting a little recently, i have not come across this, is it a wide spread problem for other gangs ? | ||||||||
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*Tinker* Posted Feb 23, 2010, 10:39 am |
For observations, just the facts
4 out of 15 of my guys got beaten up in SS Damages ranged from broken a broken nose to broken ribs/elbows, of note my 2 second highest leadership doods got hit (this seems like coincidence) rep at the time was: Locally renowned and disliked Bounty: $125 Local Hero! I'm also recognized and disliked in Elms, but nothing happend there |
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*Tinker* Posted Feb 23, 2010, 10:55 am |
@ Mike and Grograt
I've only scouted solo a few times in a FT lol, Trying to change my play style and become more friendly with pirates but its real hard to lower faction rep, especially group scouting in SS I wonder if, (just thinking out loud, and i realize it's quite early to be talking about nerfing rep). So the idea seeing that the anarchist faction is so large, that rep would drop faster to neutral standing compared to other factions that are smaller Plus the anarchist are just that anarchist misfits and not a tight civilized orderly group that take particular notes on other gangs <-- just my interpretation!
Does that seem credible? is this clear? |
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*Tinker* Posted Feb 23, 2010, 11:05 am |
Another observation, just da facts
After one scout against the FLMHs i get unappreciated by the slaver faction, despite that i did not kill any of their gangsters |
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*sam* Posted Feb 23, 2010, 11:08 am |
Tinker, thanks for the continued feedback.. this will all be very useful when we discuss how it's all working out and how it might need to be tweaked
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*Urban Decay* Posted Feb 23, 2010, 12:59 pm |
Ok what am I doing wrong to get Elmsfield to like me? Anarchists are Hated to me now, been scouting only in Elmsfield, and yet my Gate Fees have gone UP to $510. I have been trying to get them down, and get Elmsfield to be recognized as my home town.
Is it just from the 2 times I executed members of the Anarchists? Cause this last them they stole my scouts leg, had to be done.
But I really need to know what I am doing wrong. Need lower Gate Fees in Elmsfield so I can tell that I am getting close to it being my Home Town and not farther away. |
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*sam* Posted Feb 23, 2010, 1:22 pm |
The Civs don't like you.. yes, probably due to executions performed near Elmsfield.
edit: if you want execution-style revenge, make sure to do it near to a town whose primary faction isn't one you're trying to get in favour with.. |
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Serephe Posted Feb 23, 2010, 1:23 pm |
Hang on, so if i execute pirates near somerset, somerset will not like me.... can i exterminate the town if they stop liking me please? I will build many fuel bomb lorries just for that purpose.
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*Urban Decay* Posted Feb 23, 2010, 1:39 pm |
Locally well known and unappreciated
Gates Fee, per vehicle: $510 Thats my Elmsfield Status. Unappreciated with Civs and Hated by Anarchists. Do I Just need to do like 40 runs against Anarchists without killing anyone to allow me to have Elmsfield as Home Town? |
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*sam* Posted Feb 23, 2010, 1:44 pm |
You can certainly kill them in combat, Urban. It's cold-blooded executions that the townsfolk don't like. | ||||||||
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Serephe Posted Feb 23, 2010, 2:25 pm |
Killing unarmed people is bad, hand them a gun before you blow their brains out.
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*Wolfsbane* Posted Feb 23, 2010, 2:36 pm |
Makes me wonder what the townsfolk think will happen when they offer bounties. Maybe we need an option to bring them in alive for double bounty, provided there is space in the cars? | ||||||||
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*jimmylogan* Posted Feb 23, 2010, 2:55 pm |
I like the bounty "alive" option... Would be VERY interesting... | ||||||||
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*Marc5iver* marcg@comcast.net Posted Feb 23, 2010, 4:13 pm |
How do the townsfolk know that we killed them in cold blood after a scout and that they didn't die in combat? If you are killing members of a faction not liked by the town, they should be happy no matter how they died, as this would lower the potential threat to the town.
I can see the gang hating us, because however the enemies die doesn't matter, just that they did die. |
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*Grograt* gary.r.horder@gmail.com Posted Feb 23, 2010, 4:23 pm |
The kneeling with shot in back of head is a give away
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*sam* Posted Feb 23, 2010, 4:23 pm |
There's actually a random factor, depending on whether the combat was "witnessed by a 3rd party".. which is less likely if it's not a gates combat.
I see the townsfolk as having some concept of being civilised, so anything that's blatantly barbaric isn't good, even if it's their enemies that are the target. I dunno though..this whole feature seems a bit contentious, it might be better removed. |
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*Marc5iver* marcg@comcast.net Posted Feb 23, 2010, 4:29 pm |
I have had a couple of scouts where I really wanted to murder the enemies afterwards but the repercussions of the towns attitude towards me kept me from doing it. Does that mean the way it is set up now is good or bad? Not sure. | ||||||||
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*goat starer* Posted Feb 23, 2010, 4:42 pm |
I think its all a bit weird... i have twice attacked the merchants in the last few days but apparently my higher hit rate of attacking the anarchists is overwhealming their dislike of me and they actually appreciate me.
The Evan Reds meanwhile remain steadfastly neutral... here I am ... Evan Red through and through and i cant even get a flicker of recognition. Yesterday they even attacked me as bounty hit from someone (hello neko! glow!). |
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*sam* Posted Feb 23, 2010, 5:00 pm |
This is a good point. Maybe attacking someone who you're friendly with should automatically wipe out that friendship, but not cascade in any way to their friends/enemies. |
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*goat starer* Posted Feb 23, 2010, 5:10 pm |
yep... i think attacking anyone should end good relations with them. the effect of one fight aginst someone should massively outweigh the effect of fighting their enemies.
imagine for a moment that you are a duck.... A fox kills your husband drake. you then see that same fox kill a weasel that had been eating your eggs. You are not going to start liking the fox at all (although you will be delighted to see the back of that dastardly weasel). does running away from them attacking you have any effect on relationships? |
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*sam* Posted Feb 23, 2010, 5:25 pm |
Nice analogy, although I'm wondering where the badger fits in: is he an ally of the fox, or a neutral? And if a car hit the badger and killed him, would you forgive the driver when he shot your friend the pigeon? 
Er...
No. Intentionally scouting for them affects it, as does injuring/beating them in combat. But trucing or running doesn't. |
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*goat starer* Posted Feb 23, 2010, 5:48 pm |
badgers are the friends of everyone....
and pigeons are universally despised |
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*Grograt* gary.r.horder@gmail.com Posted Feb 23, 2010, 6:07 pm |
Oi i like pigeons | ||||||||
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FireFly Posted Feb 23, 2010, 6:18 pm |
Instantly wiping relations thou, that's not really "Fun"
There still aren't enough anarchist traders around for such a harsh system... 
Just saying, what you are saying here does not make for fun gameplay, and basically forces you to fight for one faction with religious zeal. I found that the reason they still like me even thou I do the occasional trader hunt is because I don't shoot to kill, I stop shooting them if they demo and stay still, whereas with pirates I slaughter them like pigs for a feast. I would rather say they can put up with gangs as a "Necessary evil", I mean, I just cleaned GW for them, halfway trough doing it anyway... |
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*goat starer* Posted Feb 23, 2010, 7:39 pm |
yeah .. i would still like you if you shot at me... blew my mates leg off and stole my car and all my stuff 
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FireFly Posted Feb 23, 2010, 7:59 pm |
Oh come now, it's a game, not an apoc simulator...
Also, why am I losing rep with shantyville if I murder anarchist there, those mutants wouldn't really give a damned methinks... (Just murdered 43 Parrotheads, making that scouts total death toll 66, the parrotheads are... no more )
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*goat starer* Posted Feb 23, 2010, 8:17 pm |
good to see you are back here....
my hunterkiller firetruck pvp squad has been waiting.... i will be loading my mortars and RGMs if you need me |
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FireFly Posted Feb 23, 2010, 8:31 pm |
Can you match 5500cr? | ||||||||
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iceman Posted Feb 23, 2010, 8:32 pm |
So one time you slaughtered 46 of their faction you captured? 
Its not really surprising they kill your captured gangers is it?
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*Tinker* Posted Feb 23, 2010, 8:33 pm |
I really don't know what i'm doing wrong
I want to be liked by mutants, and hit the civs and merchants in the elms gateway region, and nothing seems to happen, i get the unlikely slavers but never tried to kill them. all i have to show for this is a dislike from the civs, apreciated by the merchants detested by anarchist and neutral to mutants edit: i did execute on 3 occasions civs, merchants, and anarchists thinking killing the enemies of the mutants would look good in their eyes... guess all it did was piss off these factions without a equitable return from their enemies i.e. mutants in this case? |
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*goat starer* Posted Feb 23, 2010, 8:42 pm |
easily and all my best crew are there for you too!
its going to be a party! |
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iceman Posted Feb 23, 2010, 8:46 pm |
It seems mass cold blooded executions doesn't help you reputation with anyone and leads to you being summarily executed in the wilderness by the bad guys and beaten up in town by the good guys
Why does this surprise anyone?
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Arganosh Posted Feb 23, 2010, 8:53 pm |
Because to some folks mass murder is done all in fun. Yeah lets kill all these pirates that have surrendered their vehicles and weapons, no one will ever know. But then will cry and complain when the pirates decide to kill their gang members. |
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*Tinker* Posted Feb 23, 2010, 10:27 pm |
Yeah it sudenly dawned on me
About them killing you if you mass murdered their brethren, i'm not sure about that, in about 3 scouts without murdering anybody i was detested by anarchists and if i get this right detested = 40% chance of an execution per/gangster at the end of an event |
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Mad Mike Posted Feb 24, 2010, 4:49 am |
we're drawing very fine lines and in reality everyone losing the scout to the anarchists would get murdered no matter what in reality. evil people are evil and tahts it, they want you dead and taking your cars and murdering your characters without question would just be the way evil gangs would be...
but we have to have some way to save your characters after a losing scout.. a ransom of some kind be it money or a favor to the gang you just lost to to get your characters back. a mission ? even missions to gain back favor after murdering some members of that gang and later regretting it.... or make a arena combat in all towns? a thunderdome? |
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iceman Posted Feb 24, 2010, 10:31 am |
The obvious reason that they let you live after you surrender is so you don't slaughter them when you win
you've been slaughtering them so there is no point for them in letting your captured gangers live also it's logical for an aspect if revenge killings to exist in the game makes perfect sense to me you just seem sore because you lost some toons
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*sam* Posted Feb 24, 2010, 10:43 am |
Even if this feature is realistic and a nice angle to factions, it's simply too demoralising on players as well as leading to utterly weakened NPC gangs which reduces the game challenge.
Also, I'm slightly uneasy about the morality of the whole thing. Hypocritical perhaps, but hopefully you know what I mean... I actually removed the code already, last night
We could put the idea of a high ransom in instead, maybe. That way factions still have a bearing on things.. |
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FireFly Posted Feb 24, 2010, 10:53 am |
You mean I cant slaughter 43 people at once anymore...
Darn
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iceman Posted Feb 24, 2010, 11:10 am |
Ransom would be better
but really pirates would only ransom high fame gangs who they thought would be likely to pay up or have ransoms set by a calculation of a gangs kit + cash this would also be a very good way to suck money off the richer, older players and even the game up which would be welcome (ducks abuse)
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*Grograt* gary.r.horder@gmail.com Posted Feb 24, 2010, 11:51 am |
I think that was a wise choice Sam, a nice idea but it held to much of a game play sway.
I was finding it hard to find a RP reason for mass slaughter, in history only complete madmen and despots used this system ( and even mad mike isnt that mad )
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FireFly Posted Feb 24, 2010, 12:01 pm |
Yeaaaah, Ransoms!
How much will the parrotheads will pay for 43 of their people...
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Serephe Posted Feb 24, 2010, 1:40 pm |
Since ransoms aren't fatal, can we have them in pvp as well please Sam?
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Mad Mike Posted Feb 24, 2010, 1:59 pm |
ransoms that can be paid by cash for richer players and ransoms paid by missions for those that dont have alot of cash.
be cool to have to run a package to badlands from somerset to free a character captured by the anarchists after a losing scout, would add to the game uuummm we have voice for somethings... howabout a video intro to a mission?? like grand theft auto missions ??? |
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*Wolfsbane* Posted Feb 24, 2010, 11:43 pm |
The change home town button just appeared for me, although I haven't pressed it. Anyone seen if it works yet? | ||||||||
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FireFly Posted Feb 25, 2010, 8:31 pm |
I attack a trader... and I go from honored to neutral with the traders...
Seriously? |
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*Grograt* gary.r.horder@gmail.com Posted Feb 25, 2010, 8:35 pm |
why not an attack is an attack, if you attacked me i certainly wouldn't honour you any more.
Faction jumping should be avoided, if you dishonour a factions that holds you in high regard it should be even harder to gain there favour in future, keep paying vice a versa and favour should take forever to return |
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FireFly Posted Feb 25, 2010, 8:37 pm |
Bah, I am kinda curios to how they knew it was me in the first place, if I'm honored, they should take my word for it
Actually, this has me kinda annoyed actually, if my cars have no gang markings nor special skins, how do they know it was me, seriously, how? |
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*Grograt* gary.r.horder@gmail.com Posted Feb 25, 2010, 8:38 pm |
your honoured they knew what ya looked like, the statues have now been torn down
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FireFly Posted Feb 25, 2010, 8:38 pm |
But gro, I never Left my car!
Also, here is the thing, the faction consists of over 30 gangs, I dont think they just mark everyone as an enemy for getting into a brawl with just 1 of those, your saying all these factions are uber protective of their own? Hell, as far as they were considered I was an honored ally, and they just cast me out after 1 fight? How could they even prove in the first place that I initiated the attack, It's just word against word really. Explain this to me, please? It took a while to get honored, and now it is all washed away in a single scout, no thanks, that is to punishing, and does nobody any favors... |
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*Grograt* gary.r.horder@gmail.com Posted Feb 25, 2010, 9:07 pm |
You just want to be able to attack traders every so often to keep your supply of mortars and h/laser flowing.
Its a simple concept, if a friend does something i do not like, he is not a friend any more. |
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*Longo* Posted Feb 25, 2010, 9:09 pm |
Regarding hometowns. Of my 61 gangers, over 1/2 live in my camp. Ill never be able to have 50% of them in BL without having to shut my camp down for several days. Cant camp gangers count towards whatever town they are close to? Just doesnt make sense that SS is my hometown when I have 3-5 gangers there... when I have had 90% of my gangers in BL for almost 2 years? | ||||||||
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*Wolfsbane* Posted Feb 25, 2010, 9:14 pm |
I have less than 20% of my gang in BL, so I don't think the requirements are particularly high. | ||||||||
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FireFly Posted Feb 25, 2010, 9:21 pm |
Grograt, sure it makes sense that they dont honor me no more if I fight one of their many gang's, but you still haven't explained how they know it's me.
If you want to do simple concepts... My cars had no gangmarks, no ped ever got out of the car, the enemy was blasted to pieces from fairly long range, the battle was over pretty quickly, and they never saw me coming... HOW did they know it was me, since we are playing by that logic of yours. |
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*Wolfsbane* Posted Feb 25, 2010, 9:23 pm |
If we're playing by that logic of yours, how do you ever gain fame or rep in the wilderness? | ||||||||
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*Grograt* gary.r.horder@gmail.com Posted Feb 25, 2010, 9:31 pm |
You need to deselect F2 / F3 / F4 Firefly | ||||||||
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*Longo* Posted Feb 25, 2010, 9:31 pm |
Well in my case, toss in teh fact Im now running gangers up to SS for the pvp league, and doesnt leave me alot to work with. |
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FireFly Posted Feb 25, 2010, 9:40 pm |
All I see this as is as is a way to nerf certain players, and it wont change anything for the rest. If it is a game, why do you have to punish people so darned much? Never thought I would say this, but I can sympathize with why darth did ragequit. Pirates don't have any advantages except the occasional truce, even before this patch, being a pirate was unprofitable and annoying with all the BH returns, but it was possible to "walk the line" Now, even that is impossible to do, sure, there are 3 or 4 anarchist traders around, but its not like they ever have any fame, so they are almost impossible to get to figth anyway. I don't see why anyone would play a pirate anymore, this faction thing was to erase the White/Blackness of trader/pirate, well, it just increased the rift further. |
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*Grograt* gary.r.horder@gmail.com Posted Feb 25, 2010, 9:45 pm |
lol | ||||||||
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*jimmylogan* Posted Feb 25, 2010, 9:45 pm |
FF - have you tried hunting traders but choosing the faction and not the individual gang? I have and I've gotten traders even though their fame was too low to hunt just them... | ||||||||
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Arganosh Posted Feb 25, 2010, 9:48 pm |
Did you loot the demo'd vehicles or leave them to rust? Did you murder the surviving members of the group you attacked or did you let them go? If you looted vehicles then they heard you talking amongst yourselves about who was gonna drive what and maybe one of your gang members was bragging about your gang to the beaten gang. Unless you stayed in your vehicles and left them their cars they had a good chance to see your people when they started looting the remains of their squad. |
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FireFly Posted Feb 25, 2010, 9:49 pm |
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*Grograt* gary.r.horder@gmail.com Posted Feb 25, 2010, 9:49 pm |
So is the figure 20% i can understand Longos concerns here, i would imagine a camp so close to another town, should be taken into account regarding home town.
Firefly if the situation bothers you so much, why don't you make a suggestion concerning covert action squads and use of stealth. No need to get so upset. |
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iceman Posted Feb 25, 2010, 10:31 pm |
[quote]Never thought I would say this, but I can sympathize with why darth did ragequit.
[b]Pirates don't have any advantages[/b] except the occasional truce, even before this patch, being a pirate was unprofitable and annoying with all the BH returns, but it was possible to "walk the line"[/quote] This doesnt seem to square up with you always bragging about "making a million on a trader hunt" or "looting a laser" frequently on the forum?
It is somewhat realistic that if you want to be a pirate you have to mainly live on a camp up north or live down south, isn't it?
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*Longo* Posted Feb 25, 2010, 10:46 pm |
I played a pirate for 1.5 years. Alot of it has to do with managing your rep and fame. With the new system it just makes that management that much harder. From what I heard, traders down south drop some pretty ridiculous gear, so of course their needs to be balancing factor, and its that alot of peeps wont liek you doing it. | ||||||||
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iceman Posted Feb 25, 2010, 10:49 pm |
Well I guess thats the heart of it, some people had a nice little exploit and now it doesn't work
Cue..tears, wailing and much gnashing of teeth
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*Longo* Posted Feb 25, 2010, 11:01 pm |
The management was easy before, on Friday afternoons each week I would go out and do about 10 scouts vs traders just to bring my rep back into order for the week. |
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FireFly Posted Feb 26, 2010, 9:38 am |
So... I just lost my "Adored" status in 3 towns, bringing me down to no rep whatsoever... because my rep with the merchants went down to neutral...
Riiiiiiiiiiiiiight Really, seriously, the merchants have complete and utter control over Gateway, Texan and Sarsfield, able to change whom the entire towns like and hate over a single day? |
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FireFly Posted Feb 26, 2010, 9:39 am |
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*Grograt* gary.r.horder@gmail.com Posted Feb 26, 2010, 11:10 am |
Roleplay it in this way FF
" who runs from that town " states a merchant leader " well he keeps hitting us, if that towns gonna keep him in food and water, then their gonna have to get it else where, call an embargo " Town gets no merchant deliveries, and hate you for it |
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iceman Posted Feb 26, 2010, 11:12 am |
That you could knock over merchant convoys all week then mug some pirates one day and be their friends again
if you attack merchants and steal their stuff you would be their enemy no matter who else you attack that's just common sense |
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Arganosh Posted Feb 26, 2010, 1:39 pm |
OK, then apparently they had picked up some of your radio chatter during the attack, and someone recognized the call signs your team used from a previous encounter. Or maybe after you got back in town one of your gang members got a bit drunk and started bitching about how when they attacked "SO & SO Traders" there was crap for loot. There are many possible explanations for how the towns found out it was your gang that attacked them. Earlier it was easy to attack who you wanted because the love/hate system was so simplistic. Now it's a good bit more realistic/dynamic, and that will require you to learn how to work the system. So now you will have to figure out how finagle this system like you did the last. It seems you just want an easy way to attack traders for awesome loot and yet still be loved by the people they were taking that phat lewt to. |
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iceman Posted Feb 26, 2010, 4:14 pm |
Yeah jus what he just said 
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*Tinker* Posted Feb 27, 2010, 12:46 am |
Some more observations
Had a lorrie heading to TX passing through SV, decided to escort a couple cars and load up a bunch of cargo for SV Got to SV and finally my rep with the mutant faction changed Shantyville Locally recognised and appreciated Gates Fee, per vehicle: $40 FACTION STANDINGS Mutants Appreciated Merchants Liked Next loaded some cargo and arrived at TX Texan Locally anonymous Gates Fee, per vehicle: $200 Shantyville Locally recognised and appreciated Gates Fee, per vehicle: $40 FACTION STANDINGS Mutants Neutral again Merchants Liked And for SS and Elms where I murdered some people last week, and was Disliked I am now Somerset Locally prominent and unappreciated Bounty: $108 Gates Fee, per vehicle: $260 Elmsfield Locally recognised and unappreciated Gates Fee, per vehicle: $470 FACTION STANDINGS Civs Neutral was Disliked Now heading back to SV with only cargo will see if the faction responds, I seem to be on the edge maybe, and find it interesting that towns are not tied-in directly to faction standings edit: Shantyville Locally well known and appreciated Gates Fee, per vehicle: $30 FACTION STANDINGS Mutants Appreciated Merchants Liked Civs Unappreciated was neutral Seems a small faction like the mutants respond better to gifts then a large one spread over many towns. |
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Mad Mike Posted Feb 27, 2010, 7:16 pm |
I am disliked in my home town and the militia attacked me almost everytime to get into SS and I cannot escape into SS...
If I keep killing militia how can I ever get into SS again? it is my home town |
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*Rezeak* reecestensel@hotmail.co.uk Posted Feb 27, 2010, 7:29 pm |
I raised this point too mike, I'm disliked in BL and they send militia out every time so I have to kill them which makes them hate me more... just seems like you're going round in circles |
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betterlucky Posted Feb 27, 2010, 7:46 pm |
I think it'd be fair to say if you're hated in your home town, you should be free to be able to change to one where you have a positive rep or possibly just have it default to whichever has the highest rep at that time. It'd be more a case of being run out of town than a choice to change location...
Of course, you're likely to get an exit encounter with a mob carrying flaming torches when you move your guys out of the old place .
Edit: And I do think we need those grindable missions to help boost specific reps... so racing for the mafia, trading/courier for merchants, hunting anarchists for civs (and vice versa) or whatever seems appropriate. I'd rather not go down the cash for rep route though. |
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iceman Posted Feb 27, 2010, 10:04 pm |
You probably need to change home towns by moving your gang out?
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*Longo* Posted Feb 28, 2010, 12:24 am |
We are discussing the factions of several of the big faction groups right now in the RC. Hand in there, Sam realizes these may need tweaking! | ||||||||
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*Rezeak* reecestensel@hotmail.co.uk Posted Feb 28, 2010, 12:36 am |
No no, BL isn't my home town, It's just that they hate me and so I cn't escpae at gates during a return, my gangers get beaten up, and the gate prices are inbelievably high. I just think it's too hard to get a town to like you again once they hate you |
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Mad Mike Posted Feb 28, 2010, 4:38 am |
seems when im in a group Im ok... ss militia dont mobilize against me but i dunno, might like returns in SS.. would mean way more loot coming back from a mega scout.....
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*Tinker* Posted Mar 4, 2010, 4:38 pm |
Something strange happened
I was Adored by the mutant faction, but travelling from BL to SV, i had 3 encounters with mutants and accepted their truce, by the time i got to SV my rep was down to respected... Is this normal? edit: Precisely i waited for them to offer a truce and excepted in all 3 events, if i had tried to truce first would it have changed things? and what happens if you fail a truce, will they offer one after? S184674 Lonesome Highway S184673 Atom Acid Land S184662 Gates of Badlands Truckstop |
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*sam* Posted Mar 4, 2010, 4:50 pm |
It shouldn't happen like that Tinker, no..
I checked one of your events (S184673) and there's no record in the game log about any rep. changes after the truce, so it seems to have worked as expected there. I can't think anywhere else a change would have happened.. .. the problem with this new system of describing these things using text rather than precise numbers is that it makes it hard for you to know exactly what has changed a value.. |
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*Tinker* Posted Mar 4, 2010, 5:07 pm |
weird the only event just prior to that was
S184663 Run with Scissors! Vs Tusk |
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*Ninesticks* Posted Mar 4, 2010, 5:21 pm |
Well Tusk are a mutant faction. | ||||||||
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*Tinker* Posted Mar 4, 2010, 5:25 pm |
not in their description their not hehe i could have sworn that they were not based on the client loading screen... oups |
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*Longo* Posted Mar 4, 2010, 10:48 pm |
Man, I had not done a town event since the faction/rep patch, and boy has it changed.
I logged in and saw a league combat starting, and saw Ole Glowplug was the only real player joined. It was BYOB, and he had a nice BPU with 2X CCs. A worthy opponent. I tossed in a buzzer just in time, HMG/CC front, HMG rear, and two excellent gunners, one even with deathracer. After all, my guys werent gonna get hurt in a buzzer, were they? As the event began, I observed Glow stalking me and turned around just in time to engage him. He resigned, and took off driving out of the mix. I thought to myself, and even asked him, "What are you doing?" I quickly found out. I had an Apache stalk the crap outa me, along with a another car. Glow started yelling they were anarchists and they detested me. I took out another NPC, and suddenly found my Buzzer's side breached. I resigned to save my kewl doods. But these 2 anarchist's gangs kept shooting at me. I spun around and around, losing my rear HMG and front CC, and was breached both front and a side. One of my doods was bleeding heavily, another extremely heavily. Oh man! I continued to take fire, and eventually backed out. I dunno if it was the First Aid spec my driver had or not, but around turn 90 or so my guys quit bleeding. I ran into a corner and dodged fire until turn 120 hit..... End result - pristine buzzer chassis dinged, CC down to 2%, lost HMG, 2 gangers at 88%. I might not do many more town events, hehe. Some town event gang was even shooting at me, and the DR mafia love me... scary but deadly
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*sam* Posted Mar 4, 2010, 11:27 pm |
That was a pro combat, longo? Those are generally the only ones that have anarchist (or any faction-aligned) NPCs in. You won't find this behaviour in events without faction-aligned NPC gangs in. | ||||||||
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*Longo* Posted Mar 4, 2010, 11:52 pm |
Nope, it was a Northern Semi Pro League event. Event ID 83604 |
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Togakure Posted Mar 5, 2010, 1:16 am |
I noticed something that I'd like a clarification about.
I was in a squad which the squad owner is not on friendly terms with the civs or is at least hated by Somerset. On the way back we had a gates encounter with the militia, and we both ran. At the time, I was respected by the civs and locally renowned and respected by Somerset. I didn't fire a single shot, the militia never fired a shot at me, and I escaped into the city. Three of the militia cars did chase me though. Yet afterwards my rep with the civs went down to Liked. Shouldn't there be something that determines which players are actually hated and which are just in the wrong place at the wrong time? Being that I was respected by both the civs and by Somerset, shouldn't there be something that prevents the local militia from attacking such players? And if not, then how are we supposed to run scouts when we never know if our participating in that squad is going to piss off a faction that we never even attacked? Are we supposed to browse the rep pages of every squad member prior to leaving just to make sure we aren't hanging out with a "bad" player? Another problem was with the option to scout towards a specific faction. We had a couple of players who didn't want to fight the mutants, so our squad owner selected to hunt Anarchists. Yet we ended up fighting mutants anyways. Since a few of the players refused to fight and wanted to run, this left the rest of us to choose between fighting an unbalanced enemy or running as well. The majority voted and the decision was for everyone to run. So here we all are, bashing up our cars trying to evade over rough terrain. A few cars took some nasty damage but amazingly managed to make it out alive, even after doing some interesting mid-air flips, spins, rolls, and other ballet moves. Is there any way we can get an option during the placement stage to allow a few members to truce/auto-flee and let the rest fight? |
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*Marc5iver* marcg@comcast.net Posted Mar 5, 2010, 2:22 am |
I have decided to not do any more Semi Pro Combat because in last one I was in had 3 NPCs kicking my butt with their ATGs and werent firing on each other at all and it was a no teams event. Had 2 guys killed in that. |
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Togakure Posted Mar 5, 2010, 4:18 pm |
And what is up with the faction selection option when scouting?
I choose to attack Anarchists, and I get mutants. WTF? What is the point in even selecting a faction if I'm just going to end up fighting any random faction anyways? This was the second time such an issue has happened, both times with squad owner choosing Anarchists and getting Mutants. If there are going to be repercussions when being in a squad that attacks a faction you are favored with, then there needs to be a way to allow those players to freely leave the combat before it begins without putting the full CR on those who stay. As it stands now, this is turning into a whole micro-managing nightmare. Now I have to browse the faction rep pages of every squad member just to make sure I'm not going to be screwed into running from a fight or left to fight an unbalanced CR. |
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*Grograt* gary.r.horder@gmail.com Posted Mar 5, 2010, 4:57 pm |
Dont forget, this is a new system, Sam is keeping a tight watch on what is happening and if things need to change, he will change them. Give it some time and any issues will be resolved, he is a one man band remember. | ||||||||
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El Carnicero Posted Mar 5, 2010, 5:01 pm |
What Buj said.
I like the introduction of factions a lot, but if it means that every time I scout in groups (especially in SS) I am going to ruin my mutant faction, I'm just going to have to stop scouting there altogether or just do solo scouts. I've never once hunted mutants on my own or groups that I ran and to the best of knowledge, the leaders of squads I joined never did either, but somehow my mutant faction was all the way down to disliked before last night. I make it a point to go after ONLY anarchists because mutants don't like them and they also improve my civ/merchant faction. But even though I do solo scouts and couriers (do they affect this?) against pure anarchists, my mutant faction didn't recover. This can't be the way the system was intended.. -El Carnicero |
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*sam* Posted Mar 5, 2010, 5:05 pm |
That certainly shouldn't have happened, since faction-rep changes are based on damage being scored in combat.. do you have an event ID I can check?
Maybe so.. that'd make it easy for locally hated players to use other players as 'cover' though, wouldn't it?
No, just the squad owner
This may be possible, yes. There's subtleties in this new system that will take some ironing out.. stuff which no-one foresaw. |
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*sam* Posted Mar 5, 2010, 5:07 pm |
Sorry, my mistake. The Pro combats actually use Town NPC gangs. Some of the specific 'mini leagues' use wilderness ones.. such as the Northern Semi Pro. |
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Togakure Posted Mar 5, 2010, 5:22 pm |
S184690 is the event ID of the first time I encountered the SS militia, with Tinker as the squad owner. Prior to that encounter my rep with the civs was Respected and in SS I was locally renowned and respected. After the event, I was down to liked with the civs and locally renowned and liked in SS.
I'm not talking about letting the entire squad leave, but to allow the players with a positive rep be capable of a truce option that works in a similar manner as escaping from combat. If they have positive faction, and before the combat starts, they can right-click their crew and select "Truce", after which they leave the combat. As a result of players leaving under such circumstances, let the overall enemy CR be reduced by a fair percentage. This would still require the low-rep player(s) to fight or flee, but not be up against an unfair amount of enemy CR. How much reduction is done is up for discussion and testing, I guess. I'd really like to see something changed. As it sits right now, I'm not participating in any travels or scouts until something is done about this. I have lost multiple loot cars and even my 2nd best gunner on failed scouts all because of the problems stated above. I've had to flee from the Somerset militia twice now, one time losing multiple vehicles in the process. This really is a game-breaking issue for me, and has put a sour taste in my mouth. |
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*Wolfsbane* Posted Mar 5, 2010, 5:25 pm |
Was that last night? The fact the town rep went down too makes it sound like it might just be the weekly fame and rep loss going through. |
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*Tinker* Posted Mar 5, 2010, 5:25 pm |
Think Sam said the chances was influenced by the scout's skill
And something else that is bugging me, if you are in someone's else's squad caught fighting a faction that you are friendly with, even if you run away without shooting a shot you will loose rep with that faction. What about if you don't red them they don't notice too much Also if you are very friendly with them, maybe they don't target you so much? Just thinking out loud |
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*Dark Tempest* Posted Mar 5, 2010, 5:25 pm |
If vehicles from gangs that didn't want to participate in the combat were removed on turn 0, before the enemy is revealed, then in an RP sense it makes sense to have an equitable CR of the enemy vehicles chase them down, and therefore not spawn with the enemy on turn 1. As it would be random which of the cars do not spawn, and the CR that leaves both squads would be even, this seems to be the fairest solution.
EDIT: 3 posts at 10:25? Bunch of forum stalkers we are. |
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*sam* Posted Mar 5, 2010, 5:51 pm |
This took a bit of digging.. but it seems that one of the NPCs received a critical hit due to crashing their car while chasing you, and this flagged the combat as a 'real combat that you participated in', therefore you lost rep. As a friend who had just double-crossed them, you were heavily penalised while Tink only lost a tiny bit more rep. with them. I didn't really intend this to happen, and what I'll do is remove this effect from crash damage: only weapons will count. So if no-one on your squad actually hits them with a weapon, it won't be flagged as a 'real' combat. edit: I have also 'refunded' your rep., Tog. |
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*Tinker* Posted Mar 5, 2010, 5:59 pm |
Is this why a bunch of them when after him? Also if only weapon fire count, then it's fair to assume, they will ignore the friendly/neutral players and concentrate on the bad guy? |
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*sam* Posted Mar 5, 2010, 6:02 pm |
No, it doesn't currently work this way in wilderness events Tink. They consider everyone in the squad to be equal targets, and decide how much they like/dislike the squad based on the squad owner. Certainly I could change this, but it might be possible to exploit this in some ways.. to use hated guys as bait for a trap, for example. From a tactical/combat point of view, I'd prefer not to make such a change. |
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*sam* Posted Mar 5, 2010, 6:06 pm |
Something like this could be reasonable, yes.. they let certain (friendly) cars escape at the start.
Not sure about this.. maybe |
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*Tinker* Posted Mar 5, 2010, 6:23 pm |
Yup now that you mention it makes sense, But to please the largest group of players, could it be envisioned that IF no neutral/friendly player got close or fired a shot, a sort of delicate truce would be maintained between them and the NPCs? If they got to close there would be a warning sign, and then it would be a free for all. perhaps the NPCs could have text bubbles saying stuff like "friendlies stay away and don't get involved" kind of messages That would let the neg rep players run or fight and let the friendlies escape. I don't know maybe that's impossible to code or not the way you envisioned the game |
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*sam* Posted Mar 5, 2010, 6:50 pm |
Tink: yep, something along those lines seems reasonable- Tog's suggestion is quite similar and actually much easier: if the friendly players got a chance to disappear right at the start. | ||||||||
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iceman Posted Mar 5, 2010, 9:40 pm |
Heh, thats a very cool feature
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iceman Posted Mar 5, 2010, 9:43 pm |
Hmm, nice to know you can rely on your squad mates 
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d0dger Posted Mar 5, 2010, 10:12 pm |
Wish I had read this before yesterday. I had no idea the NPCs in the semi-pro league were now going to act so much differently then before, and gang up on me 4 to 1 completely ignoring each other and continue to blast the crap out of me even after I resigned. Lost my best Apache with the rare toxic skin, my only HGG, and 2 gangers, 1 of them being one of my only 4 spec'd gunnery crew. I guess this means now no more Somerset Arena for me at all, only Double Down where I have some cover to use to limit them to engaging me one or two at a time. |
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Fealty Lost Posted Mar 5, 2010, 11:22 pm |
I think it's great just the way it is.
You go out running around with someone who murders for HPs...gets gangs hating them, what are the NPC gangs supposed to think? You came along to take pictures of the flora and fauna? When you're in the lobby listening to all these people talk about murdering people...TAKE NOTES! Otherwise...caveat emptor, sucks being you! I think if a player starts a scout knowing he's hated by certain factions and gets jumped by said faction, and his pals run off...there should be NO reduction in CR. Run for it Mr. Hated Dude. Don't make it? ...think about NOT MURDERING PEOPLE! I think the Factions thing is working just fine. You are an idiot...you pay for it. However, how about a warning on the Squad Page of the owning player, that comes up saying "Player "X" is HATED by the following gangs: and a list of the players in the group, each with a listing if they have a group that HATES them? That way, as you're joining...you could see that Tinker is hated by whoever...and that you're best buddies with the NPC whoevers...and back out of the scout? If you see the warning and choose to stay...doom on you. As for in-towns...hey, if you have a gang that hates you...and you enter events with them, well, suck it up. You should know that NPC gangs have friends, too. Sam's said it enough times. Sucks being you. I like the 'you don't shoot at us, we won't shoot at you' thing if you are engaged by a group that doesn't hate you, but hates another member of your party. As for not getting who you went looking for: too bad. They're not just sitting out there wondering when you're going to show up...the bad guys are hunting too. Better luck next time. That's happened to me several times now. It is what it is. Seems to be working great so far, Sam...don't change a thing. Imagine...being responsible for your actions!! BRILLIANT! |
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*Grograt* gary.r.horder@gmail.com Posted Mar 5, 2010, 11:28 pm |
BUT .... losing the ability to scout with anyone, over realism is a dangerous avenue to take .... alienating certain groups of members from each other cuts down on the MMO aspect and could force more people into solo activity and even more away from the game totally .... balance over realism ( sorry i know you hate that lol ) | ||||||||
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Togakure Posted Mar 6, 2010, 2:44 pm |
Sam, thanks for finding out the problem and fixing my rep. I thought it was quite odd that I would be forced to lose so much rep for not even firing a shot, and can understand how their self-inflicted damage from poor driving might have caused some unexpected issues. At least it's fixed and others won't suffer from it in the future.
I would really like to see some option added to allow people the choice to either fight or flee. By adding such a feature during the deployment stage, it will allow those on friendly terms to leave without penalty. If the decision to reduce the CR of enemy vehicles is denied, then I guess I can accept it. But in those situations most players will have no choice but to flee. You can't tell me that common players are going to stand their ground and fight a 2:1 or 3:1 CR balancing afterwards. I'm not suggesting that you remove an equal amount of CR from the enemy as the amount of squad members who left, but at least offer some reduction to at least give the remaining members a chance of survival. I'm still wondering if anything can or should be done about the option to choose which faction you scout after. Several times now have I seen a squad owner (including myself) choose to scout after a specific faction, yet have an encounter with someone completely different. As it stands right now, can we be told even a hint as to what affects the chances of successfully getting our desired faction? Is it based on Rep, scout skill, what? If it continues to be a problem getting the desired faction then even after a feature is added to allow positive-rep players from fleeing, you're still going to be hearing a lot of complaints. If the squad owners keep choosing Anarchists for example and consistently get encounters with Mutants, you're going to see a lot of mutant-friendly players repeatedly having to turn around without firing a shot. Those players in turn are going to be yelling out about wasted time and fuel, even though the joined a squad that was supposedly going after non-Mutants. I just don't see much point with choosing a faction if your desired selection is rarely going to be what you actually get. At this rate, squads are going to have to start forming up based on a single specific faction. If the squad leader is disliked by Mutants, then it's necessary for all other squad members to be 100% comfortable with attacking Mutants. Basically, you have to join scout squads where the leader has identical Rep as you do, and this will seriously limit the ability to scout. Even more so during the slower hours of server population/activity. As Grograt mentioned, this might start forcing more solo scouts or make people want to leave the game. |
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*sam* Posted Mar 8, 2010, 10:30 am |
The issue here relates to the fact that you could easily choose a faction which you know to be very weak in an area, thereby guaranteeing a weak enemy in your combat, even without decent scouting skill. I don't know what the solution is, so for the moment I'll remove the scouting check and match you up against your desired faction automatically, except in severe cases (e.g. where the only one in the area is very weak and your squad is too strong for it).. |
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*sam* Posted Mar 8, 2010, 10:47 am |
Just to also let you know I'm monitoring this stuff and have made several tweaks already to the chance of certain things happening.
1. The effect of faction-hatred in the arena has been toned down (but it's not something I want to remove entirely).. it's only the northern semi-pro league that's affected by this anyway, as far as I recall, since that's the only one that has NPC wilderness gangs in it. 2. I removed the 'murder' action, for several reasons, not least of which I think it was pretty distasteful 3. I have reduced the chance of militia attacks when you arrive into a town that hates you 4. I have reduced the pvp-combat impact on camp fame, espcecially when the combat was part of the new squad league. The issue of this new faction system stopping people from playing together is a real one.. I'm not sure if it's something we can remove entirely without distorting the faction system beyond all meaning. However, maybe the squad leader could take full impact from any rep. changes from a combat, while the other members would take a lesser effect (positive or negative)? Just an idea.. it would be easier to implement and less disruptive on multiplayer gaming than having a bunch of cars escape. Maybe also, rather than everyone in a squad taking equal rep. effect from a combat, the actual player who causes injuries takes more, and the one who didn't takes less?? |
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*goat starer* Posted Mar 8, 2010, 11:06 am |
sam,
i am finding it really difficult to make the merchants dislike me. I keep killing them but my anti anarchist actions seem to be outweighing my anti merchant stuff... |
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*sam* Posted Mar 8, 2010, 11:11 am |
The merchants and anarchists are enemies goat.. it's gonna be hard to have them both hate you, that's true. | ||||||||
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Serephe Posted Mar 8, 2010, 11:21 am |
I don't know Sam -- I think I managed that quite well yesterday... =P
It seems that people are easier to make hate than to make love, so eventually goat should be able to at least have one as hated while the other is detested? |
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*sam* Posted Mar 8, 2010, 11:22 am |
It should be possible, yes, since cascaded rep. changes are never as strong as the original. | ||||||||
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FireFly Posted Mar 8, 2010, 11:59 am |
You see, when We go after traders occasionally, I just blow the enemy cars up, but I try to spare the peds, while Chaos cant keep his finger of that trigger, poor pedestrians in the open...
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*goat starer* Posted Mar 8, 2010, 12:19 pm |
but as a red they are BOTH my enemies... this is why people need to be able to CHOOSE a faction so that they can roleplay it properly. you could lose your faction status by acting contrary to its interests but you should be able to decide that you are a red etc. |
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Serephe Posted Mar 8, 2010, 12:22 pm |
You can role-play it properly. Kill more merchants. :> | ||||||||
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*Wolfsbane* Posted Mar 8, 2010, 12:50 pm |
Um - as a red, anarchists aren't your enemies goat. You should be attacking merchants and slavers, and playing nice with badlands truckstop. You should also try and annoy the deathrace mafia, which I think can only be done by hunting the elmsfield olympians right now.
Faction details here. |
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Togakure Posted Mar 8, 2010, 1:40 pm |
This is the option I think is best, as it's also the most "realistic". Think about it in modern terms: A group of people are on trial for beating someone up and eventually kill him. The person who actually dealt the lethal blow or the injury determined to be the most-likely cause of death is going to get the most serious punishment. The others are still going to be punished as well, but on a much lesser degree, more along the lines of accomplices. So in DW, anyone firing at the vehicles or peds of a faction are going to take negative rep, but those who are actually filling the screen with blue and red text are going to be deemed the most responsible. Maybe some sort of scale? Code: 1 2 3 4
1) Red (kill) a ped on foot 2) Blue (injure) a ped on foot 3) Kill a crew in vehicle 4) Injure a crew in vehicle This way, players who want to fight but not really take a huge rep loss can help demo the vehicles but hold fire once a vehicle has been breached and never fires on peds. Those wanting to maximize their rep loss/gain and get nasty can red the enemy until there's nothing left but pink vapor. You'd also have to consider which is more important to you on a scout, keeping loot intact or gaining max rep. In order to do both you really need some skill. |
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*goat starer* Posted Mar 8, 2010, 2:29 pm |
I'm sure sam said elsewhere he was changing this.... if not he should.. reds would be against everyone except the civilians... especially the anarchists. They stand for the exact opposite of communism... individual gain over collective action. theft not work. so you cant role play being a proper red at all. far as I can see this whole factions thing has become a massive waste of space. It should be ablout people choosing a faction not just happening to join one. |
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Bruv Posted Mar 9, 2010, 2:10 pm |
This thread is getting massive and I haven't read it all but my experience of the factions is that it hasn't changed very much.
People in SS fight anarchists, people in FL attack traders, everything else is a mild irritant at best. I can see why people would want lower gates fees and don't want to be denied entry to settlements but both of those are avoidance of penalty. I can't find an incentive to follow a particular faction. For example why would anyone want to be an Anarchist up north, or a Merchant down south? There needs to be some compelling reason to join a particular faction and stick with it, or else its just flavour. I can think of some based on assigning a play strategy to each faction but I think that is a different topic. |
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*sam* Posted Mar 9, 2010, 2:41 pm |
Bruv: something goat suggested to me might be relevant here. The concept of formally joining a specific faction, and that each faction has its own advantages...
It would be interesting to consider what these advantages might be? -- Anarchists.. you get a recruiting bonus? -- Merchants.. you get better buy/sell rates with NPCs with bulk goods? -- Deathrace Mafia.. you sometimes find you car has been provisioned with reloads in an arena combat? Maybe we could build up a list of these things.. |
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*Grograt* gary.r.horder@gmail.com Posted Mar 9, 2010, 3:44 pm |
Faction membership would be an excellent idea ... as long as it does not effect who you can scout with, too much ... | ||||||||
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*Urban Decay* Posted Mar 9, 2010, 3:47 pm |
That I really like. Logical step up since the introduction of factions to allow you to choose a faction to join with and get their bonus.
What about also having some sort of benefit amongst each of the towns, so where you have as your Home Town has a factor on your gang as well. Things like Texan would give residents free refueling as long as they are in good standing. And things of this nature that go along with the local flavor of the town. |
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Mad Mike Posted Mar 9, 2010, 3:51 pm |
also have to have an equal disadvantage to the advantage.
against the anarchists you get a better recruiting bonus but your chances of getting a travel encounter goes up because they are looking for you and the travel encounter is a more equal CR not to make more travel encounters more difficult. |
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Flaming savage Posted Mar 9, 2010, 4:35 pm |
If you are liked by a town mabey you could get a training boost? Like you get a LG boost in BL, you get FA boost in Elms and so on. | ||||||||
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*sam* Posted Mar 9, 2010, 4:47 pm |
I think the main thinking behind this is that it's actually quite hard to declare your faction at the moment, since nearly all faction-rep changes are based on combat, and therefore on killing the enemies of the faction you want to be friendly with. If you could formally declare your faction, this would be made much easier. I don't think it would affect who you can scout with (at least, no more than the current faction system already does). |
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iceman Posted Mar 9, 2010, 6:53 pm |
My vote: - Civs get the cutest chicks (the ones with teeth)
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*Urban Decay* Posted Mar 9, 2010, 7:07 pm |
Either the Civs or the Merchants should have something along the lines of a higher chance of succeeding when using your negotiator roll to offer bounty/truce, or slightly more advantageous positioning while in travel encounters.
Something along the lines of easing the ability to move goods slightly, though not sure if it's negative should be slightly increased chance of getting encounters while traveling, or have it take effect in your scouts. |
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Mad Mike Posted Mar 9, 2010, 9:46 pm |
to change the subject a bit:
we were talking tin the lobby about BH and it occured to me with the new system if the CIVs really like you or the merchants love you then the merchant BH or any BH belonging to a faction that like youcouldnt be hired against you and should not even appear in the list of BH to attack you |
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*Urban Decay* Posted Mar 9, 2010, 10:35 pm |
Makes sense, they would indeed appreciate the work you are doing for their friends and not want to agree to the contract. Perhaps though if you are noticed attacking against the civs or merchants in say a trader hunt, while a failed bounty attempt was put on your head that week, it would then stick to you. | ||||||||
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*Tinker* Posted Mar 10, 2010, 1:24 am |
Funny thing with BH, i've had a bounty for two weeks and have had only one BH encounter in the SS area i think (and not even sure i didn't target them myself) |
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*goat starer* Posted Mar 10, 2010, 2:16 am |
i think this has already been done for player hired hits.... sam was going to make it so that if you have positive rep with a faction then gangs from that faction cant be hired against you... closes a rather unpleasant little trick that a certain extortioner was using where you keep hiring evan reds on a player so they have to fight them and can never get a good rep with the reds.
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*sam* Posted Mar 10, 2010, 9:06 am |
Yep, you can't order hits using gangs that belong to factions who are friendly with the target.
Here's another idea about a faction-specific effect: Winning pro events will sometimes give you a rep boost with the Deathrace Mafia, and these guys let you buy rare stuff when they really like you? -- via a hero-point type system (these would be 'influence points' with a faction) |
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Mad Mike Posted Mar 12, 2010, 11:27 am |
good idea to allow a player to get hero points if all they do is town events. | ||||||||
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Togakure Posted Mar 13, 2010, 4:42 am |
For some reason, over the past day or two I've been noticing that my rep with the Merchants keeps going from Respected to Liked and back again, for no obvious reason.
I've been doing a few scouts, but only against Anarchist faction. I've also done a couple travels, but the only encounters were also with Anarchists. So my rep should have been going up, not down. Is it possible that selling items on the market has anything to do with Merchant faction rep? |
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Serephe Posted Mar 13, 2010, 5:17 am |
Toga, rep drops(or raises if its negative) on training day. Fame too. | ||||||||
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*Bastille* Posted Jun 23, 2010, 4:53 am |
This topic seems to have died here, but...
Is there anywhere where the pros and cons are made clear? The system seems to be working really well for me lately, not sure if due to tweaks or my choices, but am really liking the results. |
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*Bastille* Posted Jun 23, 2010, 9:01 am |
bump | ||||||||
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*Tinker* Posted Jul 3, 2010, 4:15 pm |
I think it used to be stickied in this forum Otherwise after hearing Firefly muter how easy it is to influence the faction system today I wondered if a couple tweaks might be in order? It seems to be balanced in my case, it takes a while to get the ball rolling and I have to always watch my rep in various towns. I always scout with one car (about 200 cr).. Always on group scouts with a cr of 500-1000 I was wondering if the amount of favors gained could be scaled by how much cr you bring into a scout, that should help reduce any easy megas where the first few cars are completely, and easily reded before the others demo? |
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*Bastille* Posted Sep 8, 2010, 3:47 pm |
Had some weird things going on with Rep today
Todays activities: attacked Merchant BHs, and then Anarchists hit me on return. lots of kills in both. They now both like me more. (from neutral to appreciated) Hit some slavers and then Raiders. (did not take note of any changes) Hit Raider Traders a few times and they now like me more. should start naming my cars Cupid
Missed Serephe for the 103rd day in a row .. courage suffering
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phax Posted Sep 8, 2010, 6:56 pm |
So, how come Firelight is anarchist and not slaver aligned? Has there been any motion in assigning benefits to the various factions? | ||||||||
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*Tango* Posted Sep 8, 2010, 7:12 pm |
Yes for DR Mafia, you do get reloads and engine tuning on rare occasions for arena events. Can't speak for other factions. I have seen mutants not get attacked by other mutants in arenas, they say something like :Holding fire for you brother, or some such |
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Jeelz Posted May 18, 2011, 4:51 am |
I've been hitting the raiders all week and they have gone from unappreciative to appreciating me. What gives?
In the mean time, my rep with Civs and Merchants has continued to decline. I am with the mutants, so I am use to seeing my standing with civs in particular drop sharply at the weekly update, but so far this week it has just continued to decline despite my best efforts to restore it. I've even spent all my HP's on getting a better standing with civs, to no visible effect. No bounties or anything like that, so it's not really making a big difference to my game play, but it is unusual. |
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Jeelz Posted May 18, 2011, 6:29 am |
Okay, just ran a few travels with no encounters around elms/ SS area and now I have a bounty in SS on me. Can anyone shed some light on how I am pissing off the locals? | ||||||||
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*Bastille* Posted May 18, 2011, 7:19 am |
Your not crossing the Mutant Rat migration path are you. The hippies don't like that.
any underlivered packages? |
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Jeelz Posted May 18, 2011, 7:26 am |
Nope, no failed missions.
Furthermore, I am rolling around with immunity down south at the moment, apparently I'm friendly enough with everyone to avoid all encounters! |
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Jeelz Posted May 19, 2011, 6:43 am |
My rep in SS is still slipping, my bounty is still increasing. I'm not particularly concerned, just very curious as to why this would be the case. I have run a few travels both down south and around SS and elms, with no encounters. My only other activity is to hit raiders around SS and Thebes. What is going on?
With the southern runs, I'm getting no encounters with a sub 20 scout. I guess this means I should start doing cargo runs down that way! |
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*JeeTeeOh* Posted May 22, 2011, 9:02 pm |
So I've been a DRM member in pretty good standing for quite a while. My rep with them, as of this morning, was "respected." Gotta be the high end of respected, cuz a couple days ago I used two towns' worth of hero points on increasing my rep with those guys.
I finally completed the "Racing for the Mob" narrative missions. Did the last race as the DRM wanted, not winning the race but finishing fairly well... ...and now my rep with them is a whopping "Neutral." Something seems broken here. I apologize for not reading 15 pages of posts to see if this is mentioned already, but wow, these mafia types are some fickle S.O.B.s, ain't they? |
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The Paranoid Tourist Posted May 23, 2011, 4:33 am |
You know it. | ||||||||
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Bolt Thrower Posted Feb 1, 2014, 9:45 pm |
??? 
Does losing scouts affect you reputation. My merchant rep is slipping negative and I have not been targeting them. I have lost a scout to evans reds and mutants though. I haven't failed any courier or taxi missions. |
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*goat starer* Posted Feb 2, 2014, 12:44 am |
who have you been targetting? if you target their friends then you lose rep with them
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Bolt Thrower Posted Feb 2, 2014, 2:09 am |
Targeting Evans Reds in Morgan. Mutants in Shanty and Sars. I have one scout vs Merchants or Civs (not sure which) in SS. But Merch rep has been steadily dropping for the last week. Really not sure how rep works. | ||||||||
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*Boonwolf* Posted Feb 2, 2014, 10:14 am |
Yes Failed scouts changes rep some. The best way to get the rep to move is hit highest famed gangs and RED as many as possible. The lower the fame is on your target the less reward "REPUTATION" you will get from each kill, trader gangs also give a lower rep bump. This can be good if you looking to get some goods and not trash your standings with a faction. Rader, Anarchists, and Privateers will help Merchant rep the most. even reds give 1\2 the rep per kill muties I forgot to look but there low also there best for Civ reputation as are slavers. |
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Bolt Thrower Posted Feb 3, 2014, 6:18 pm |
Thanks Boon. Didn't realize losing scouts would affects rep much. Been focusing on courier and taxi missions because of my substandard gang, but those dry up when civ and merchant reps drop. I need to be more careful.
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AugustusC Posted Feb 3, 2014, 7:15 pm |
I'm going to guess that a hefty portion of the missions you've been running have been into Shanty. Keep in mind that missions also move rep. Check out: http://www.dark-wind.com/factions.php |
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*The X Man* Posted Feb 3, 2014, 7:16 pm |
Also remember that losing scouts affects your gangs morale too. You start at 100 and the highest your morale can be is 200. Once it starts to dip below 100 will give you negative effects.
I have not read this anywhere, but I believe there is a possibility your gangers could walk out and leave your gang the closer your morale gets to zero. If anyone can verify this, please add comments. |
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Bolt Thrower Posted Feb 3, 2014, 7:48 pm |
Sort of running everywhere, except FL. Haven't worked up to driving there yet. Most of my missions are pretty low level, but Shanty is actually a very low percentage of them. I think the rep hit is a function of losing a vehicle to ambush and losing two vehicles in bad solo scouts. That link is pretty helpful; I will have to study it. thanks Augustus.
I try to keep morale between 190 and 200 barring the weekly reset to 160-169 each week. I don't tend to lose many scouts, mostly because I can't afford to. Most of the time I run when things go bad. This last week was exceptionally bad. First time I lost a vehicle travelling in the last three months. Then one scout where I should have run but didn't. Then another scout on a map I hadn't been on where I ran into a dead end more or less.
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Bolt Thrower Posted Feb 3, 2014, 7:53 pm |
And I got smacked on a return by slavers earlier in the week. It was a really bad week, actually. I guess word gets around when you are getting thumped. | ||||||||
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PvtParty Posted Feb 4, 2014, 10:47 am |
I'd check your back if I were you - think someone might have painted a target on there! 
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Bolt Thrower Posted Feb 4, 2014, 2:54 pm |
It must be the Droogs. They chase me and yell foul things every time I drive through Shanty. I think they even payed Snipe to chase me around Texan last night and soften up my armor for them.
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PvtParty Posted Feb 4, 2014, 3:48 pm |
Or it could be Snipe having a little fun... have you done anything to upset him? | ||||||||
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Bolt Thrower Posted Feb 4, 2014, 4:21 pm |
No, he is hunting everybody. Said he would buy me a drink afterwards, but I was on a travel at my exit point. So I got to do my next two encounters with low rear armor. Always exciting for me.
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*Snipe* Posted Feb 4, 2014, 4:44 pm |
Yep, I even hunt you Pvt. Just have yet to catch you. | ||||||||
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*Maxxed* Posted Feb 4, 2014, 4:50 pm |
Yup..like rats leaving a sinking ship. You get a decent chance of rehiring 'em though. (Once morale back up...I believe lack of food n water affects morale as well - took a too long hiatus once with low food, H2O n cash...lost 3 or 4...hired 2 of 'em back.) |
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*Maxxed* Posted Feb 4, 2014, 4:54 pm |
I wouldn't put too much faith in the accuracy of this page. Wiki is very outta date plus DW a highly dynamic game. I believe there is a +ve relationship between Civs n Reds for example. |
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*Maxxed* Posted Feb 4, 2014, 4:55 pm |
Snipe's a good egg..sure he'll hunt ya n shoot ya silly...but he'll usually give ya ride back...sometimes with new upholstery... |
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Bolt Thrower Posted Feb 4, 2014, 5:16 pm |
I need to figure this out. I was getting most of my income from racing, but now it is mostly from courier and taxi missions. Not so good when I don't see any.
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PvtParty Posted Feb 4, 2014, 5:45 pm |
As long as he doesn't dislodge my furry dice... Snipe, you don't get too many chances to hit me, but I'll be keeping the ol' radar on active, just in case. |
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*Maxxed* Posted Feb 4, 2014, 8:47 pm |
Go into each faction and it will state the relationships. The table might be more accurate if you were not aligned to a faction(renegade). If you want to play pragmatically pick a faction which suits your money making strategy...or just loot stuff n buy what ya need! I think Civs and Merchants are probably the best faction for newer players but other players may disagree. |
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*Rev. V* Posted Feb 4, 2014, 9:59 pm |
Don't lose your leader....my gang morale is at 39 right now because of this weeks Morgan incident..ouch! | ||||||||
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Bolt Thrower Posted Feb 4, 2014, 10:10 pm |
That is the problem with having good leaders. I lose leaders all the time and morale barely drops. Mostly, I think, because they are playing hot potato trying to avoid the role. And then the guy who gets stuck with it mopes around for a few days listening to emo music until he finally gets back to business.
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AugustusC Posted Feb 9, 2014, 9:50 pm |
That link isn't to the wiki. It's part of the dark-wind.com site itself, and it's dynamic. The weekly political update in the gazette is reflected there. For example, this week has a negative Anarch/BLTS adjustment. It's normally a +20% relationship. This week it's +15%. |
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*StCrispin* ce.services.mh@gmail.com Posted Feb 10, 2014, 3:36 am |
I guess the plan of attack went... Ehhh... "Tits up" ? |
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Bolt Thrower Posted Feb 10, 2014, 6:15 pm |
Does delivering narcotics negatively affect Merchant rep? I redded some raiders last night but my gate fees at the three merchants aligned towns went up to almost double. I assume that means merchants are mad at me, but really not sure why. | ||||||||
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musashi_san Posted Feb 10, 2014, 6:16 pm |
where did you deliver to? | ||||||||
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Bolt Thrower Posted Feb 10, 2014, 6:20 pm |
Badlands and Texan. Maybe also Elmsfield. delivery hitting tonight in Sarsfield. | ||||||||
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*Maxxed* Posted Feb 11, 2014, 5:26 am |
That's the problem with top-heavy pedestrians.... |
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PvtParty Posted Feb 11, 2014, 9:39 am |
I don't find those kinds problematic...
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