Zoltan Posted Jan 29, 2010, 7:28 pm	Ok how can we start one up. Ideas gents. I have lots of cash and prizes I'll sponsor it no problem there, but how do we make it work fairly.
*jimmylogan* Posted Jan 29, 2010, 7:32 pm	Look for "gentleman's duel club" - we had started something a long time ago that was 'sanctioned.' JL
Serephe Posted Jan 29, 2010, 7:43 pm	Z -- the easiest way to start would be to create a bunch of TAC events. Create a TAC tournament with prizes, and people will enter, I am sure. After that, move on to a tournament using peoples real vehicles. And just keep pushing for real PvP as a long term goal!
*Urban Decay* Posted Jan 29, 2010, 7:56 pm	Just setup event types. With a limitation of Various chassis and weapons allowed for each event level. These can either be CR locked, be specific to a set style of car, such as sedan or muscle. Have certain allowed chassis for each level so no one goes overboard and keep it a fairly level playing field. That way skill and strategy matter far more then who brought the biggest gun. Limit weapon level to match the general value of the chassis being used in each level of the league. If you really want to get serious on pure player skill level. Could even have a league with Identical chassis and weapon loadouts. Changing only the armor locations and which facing you prefer to have your weapons on.
darthspanky Posted Jan 29, 2010, 7:58 pm	could be based on the ladders we have now? go yearlong and based on points? anyone who signs up has better chance to get pvp in wild if both are in the pvp ladder leage?
Nekojin Posted Jan 29, 2010, 8:03 pm	Zoltan said: but how do we make it work fairly.  Short answer: You can't. There will always be something "breaking" the system, especially behind-the-scenes collusion. Longer answer, ignoring things like collusion: 1.) Make specialized free-for-all Combat events. 2.) Make events be skill-capped by certain amounts (only capped for School-trainable Combat skills, that is). Some events are capped at 50, some at 100, some at 150, for example. Make sure that there's a mix of all cap levels for each week of the league, so that people can participate at a level that suits them. 3.) Either have peds disappear the turn after their car Resigns, or have SEVERE points penalties on deliberately firing on a Resigned car with occupants.
*Urban Decay* Posted Jan 29, 2010, 8:04 pm	Something like that, as long as you have some basis for the ruleset of the league, and then post who won lost, and put up the Event ID for confirmation. Could set it like the ladders too if you wanted. Start with a certain number of points. You get a bonus for victory, a loss for defeat. And would lose points off of your score for each car you lost as well. So that maximum points gained would be for a total victory with no cars lost to being demoed. If your score drops to zero, you are out for the remainder of that league level. Or, could simply just lose points for each demoed car until only 1 man is left standing with positive points.
Joel Autobaun Posted Jan 30, 2010, 2:27 am	Sam should create a PvP league - basically like the SS combat league, NO NPCS and make it playable only a few times a week like the ped combat leagues. Like 2 times during the week and 2 times on weekend maybe...just have to catch one of the events in the week.
*Urban Decay* Posted Jan 30, 2010, 3:00 am	Think it would be better as wilderness events though. Direct squad challenges. Maybe even as 2 on 2 or 3 on 3 teams from time to time with a few cars each. That would make it really interesting. Though direct combat events would be FAR easier to organize.
Zoltan Posted Jan 30, 2010, 5:35 am	Ok well hopefully Sam will see this I'm shooting him a PM to check the thread and get his input. Looks like we have enough interest to have a go anyways. Thx Guys
4saken Posted Jan 30, 2010, 5:52 pm	I don't see as why we need any special code for this. Essentially it's just a squad challenge, right? The only exception is that we have no way to do a free-for-all (i.e. more than 2 sides). Also IMO people should be able to bring some variety of vehicles (limited by CR and maybe some other limits) to keep it interesting and for a good fight each side should have at least two vehicles (or at least one side should have two). If you have one car vs one car there's not much you can do tactically other than drive at each other, although this should make the fight take much less time. I had an idea for this once before and I ended up settling on 350 CR per side, which would allow for a buzzer, and apache with escort, 3 muscles, etc. This allows for alot of variety. There could of course be other classes. And yes, limiting crew CRs is a must. In an actual fight it is self-limiting due to risk, but in a fight where no one is likely to get hurt there's no reason not to bring your best crew and of course crew are not factored in to CR.
Zoltan Posted Jan 30, 2010, 6:51 pm	Currently squad challenges do not benefit from the pvp bonuses to camps or individual training I don't believe, anyone the two i have been in never did. But the other ideas definitley are right on with what I was thinking.
4saken Posted Jan 30, 2010, 7:19 pm	Well if this a casual league I don't see why they would offer any of that, actually.
*Urban Decay* Posted Jan 30, 2010, 7:23 pm	Yeah the general point of the league is just to have fun shooting each other, and see who comes out on top. If you wanted to PvP for camp fame the system in place to do so, and if you want to get your gangers up, keep em in real events as usual. You don't have to gain anything to have a good time, just have to enjoy what your doing.
Zoltan Posted Jan 31, 2010, 5:58 pm	I agree. forgot my other objections. What about a pro combat scenario but on wilderness maps. so we could utilize terrain for defense. We could have unlimited with huge prizes and Cr bracketed events with more moderate prizes, or we could run it like other Leagues and have different events weekly points cumulate event to event.
*sam* Posted Jan 31, 2010, 6:09 pm	How about making it structured quite closely to football leagues in the real world: PvP leagues that run as CR-capped squad challenge events. Hardware + training prizes. Number of demo'd enemy vehicles is like "goals scored", number demo'd on your own side is like "goals conceded". Important only for tie-break situations. Combats are 1-v-1 and are done in a round-robin fashion i.e. you have to fight each other guy in the league once, at a time that you agree. Some rule would need to be made for situations where you can't find a mutual time.. the server would have to pick a time. 'Divisions' with promotion and relegation each season. Skill-caps defined per-division. There could also be a 'cup' format competition too where each round is a knockout rather than a league match.
Groove Champion Posted Jan 31, 2010, 6:31 pm	I think "CR demoralised" would be a better way to measure score, otherwise a player bring a fleet of Sonics to fight a Buzzer would be at a disadvantage.
Zoltan Posted Feb 1, 2010, 6:16 pm	I like it, we could certainly start it up and fine tune it as we go along. PVP will live yet!
Nekojin Posted Feb 1, 2010, 7:52 pm	*Groove Champion* said: I think "CR demoralised" would be a better way to measure score, otherwise a player bring a fleet of Sonics to fight a Buzzer would be at a disadvantage. Agreed to this. And while we're at it, can we get CR to include ganger skill, too? Please?
*sam* Posted Feb 1, 2010, 8:01 pm	Nekojin said: *Groove Champion* said: I think "CR demoralised" would be a better way to measure score, otherwise a player bring a fleet of Sonics to fight a Buzzer would be at a disadvantage. Agreed to this. Yep Nekojin said: And while we're at it, can we get CR to include ganger skill, too? Please?  Do you mean generally, or just for these special leagues? For the leagues, the idea was to have a skill-cap defined for each division.
*Wolfsbane* Posted Feb 1, 2010, 8:05 pm	Sounds like a great idea. In as long as there's skill training - if I'm risking life and limb I want XPs, dammit
Nekojin Posted Feb 1, 2010, 8:19 pm	*sam* said: Nekojin said: And while we're at it, can we get CR to include ganger skill, too? Please?  Do you mean generally, or just for these special leagues? For the leagues, the idea was to have a skill-cap defined for each division. Generally. While Buzzer vs. Buzzer seems a fair fight, if one side has 200+ skill gangers, and the other side has 50-80 skill gangers, it's probably going to be a very one-sided slaughter. Having skill caps defined for the PvP league also works, either way.
Iffler Posted Feb 1, 2010, 8:21 pm	Would it be scheduled/operated like the ladder events? Otherwise time zones are gonna cause an issue (except for serephe who never sleeps) and maybe make a 2v2 league (2 players per side) Definately needs some thought to whether this is utilised to help introduce people who are scared of pvp or not.
*sam* Posted Feb 1, 2010, 9:35 pm	Iffler said: Would it be scheduled/operated like the ladder events? Otherwise time zones are gonna cause an issue (except for serephe who never sleeps) Yep, scheduling would be the main issue when you're trying to bring together two *specific* players for a combat. Operating like ladders could generally work - the issue is how we decide who to blame if the event doesn't end up happening? There has to be some fallback automated scheduling for events that haven't been played in their specified period. Iffler said: and maybe make a 2v2 league (2 players per side) That'd help the scheduling, yes.
*Rezeak* reecestensel@hotmail.co.uk Posted Feb 1, 2010, 10:39 pm	Can't we have the best of both? Have people be able to do one scheduled one (like a ladder match) per week and also have specific scheduled ones (like town events)?
Zoltan Posted Feb 2, 2010, 6:13 pm	Or have them available from the tavern like gladiator events, with a max number per week to even out the points like the ladders.
Serephe Posted Feb 2, 2010, 9:46 pm	Personally, I'd rather these be more unofficial player run leagues... but that's just me. I prefer when people are having fun, not taking it too seriously and having a whinge that their guy died because now they can't win the laser/rgm/whatever.
*Grograt* gary.r.horder@gmail.com Posted Feb 2, 2010, 9:49 pm	agreed, the informal pro races we have done have been great, no complaints about behaviour or ganger vehicle loss, all taken in the right spirit of the event
Serephe Posted Feb 2, 2010, 9:51 pm	And the same with the squad challenges, from what I've seen.
*sam* Posted Feb 2, 2010, 9:52 pm	*Serephe* said: Personally, I'd rather these be more unofficial player run leagues... but that's just me. I prefer when people are having fun, not taking it too seriously and having a whinge that their guy died because now they can't win the laser/rgm/whatever.  It's true, but.. you can't beat proper scheduled competitions in terms of making sure they actually happen.
Serephe Posted Feb 2, 2010, 9:55 pm	That sounds like a challenge.
*Grograt* gary.r.horder@gmail.com Posted Feb 2, 2010, 9:55 pm	Then keep prizes to a minimum , make it all about the ' fame and Glory'