Some ideas for psionics
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4saken Posted Dec 23, 2009, 3:51 pm |
It seems there was a discussion thread on Psionics but I can't seem to find it. Anyway, I'm geeking out Monster right now so I had a bunch of ideas fly into my head. I figured I would post them before I got back to my "normal" self...
Psi Major Powers: 1) Main Powers: Linked to a spec. The way play balance of a major power is that you can usually pull it off once per game and you can attempt to do it more than once but this might give you the splitting migraine. Once per game makes the powers useful, cool, and effective, but does not cause a great imbalance IMO. It also alleviates the "all it does is make me go unconscious" thing. As for multiple attempts simply assign a % to succeed with each attempt. If you succeed, it works and you can try again. If not, it fails, you take concussion damage, and you cannot try again. A sample percentage for a power might be 100% for the first attempt, 60% for the second, then 40% and on down to 20% if you feel lucky. This could be done per power (if you have more than one) or per game, so that if you have, say, 3 powers, you can choose one of them to use safely that battle rather than use all three once safely. Very powerful powers might have less than 100% chance for the first attempt. Powers that are sustained (and secondary minor powers that every psi gets) might also have a "drain". 2) Link Aurora weather to psi Because, hey, this is DW and that would be cool. Colors and intensity might affect your chance to do a power more than once, it's drain overall, or it's effectiveness. Some game areas or individual maps might have more or less base exposure as well. For instance, FL maps might have more. 3) Custom Psi Concussion messages Just in case this isnt already in the works instead of generic "minor concussion" etc we can "splitting headache", "has a dizzy spell", "nauseous" , "vomits uncontrollably", "starts bleeding from the eyes", etc. Ok these are just some ideas before I forget. I had more but I already forgot them. :[ And I'm supposed to be working right now. My computer shouldn't even be on. Back to reality, catch you guys later. |
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*Tinker* Posted Dec 27, 2009, 10:18 am |
Yea and what about having PSI train in only scouts during the Auroras?
Yes seconded! |
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Groovelle Posted Dec 28, 2009, 10:34 am |
I wish Psi users to be uber badass characters everyone wants. However its done is cool. | ||||||||
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FireFly Posted Dec 28, 2009, 11:05 am |
Right now... they are wimps 
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*sam* Posted Dec 28, 2009, 12:52 pm |
I've pinned this, we need a suggestions thread for psi. Thanks... | ||||||||
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Groove Champion Posted Dec 28, 2009, 8:28 pm |
Well, since these are only suggestions, let's go crazy:
The ability to convince an enemy ganger to step out of his moving vehicle? Perhaps it could work like 'reload in motion' where a psionic character can convince another ganger to do this at varying speeds depending on the level of the spec? I suppose I should add I see psionics working much in the same way other specs work: hit 50 in psionics, get a skill - hit 100, get another skill or perfect the one already chosen at 50, etc... |
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Joel Autobaun Posted Dec 28, 2009, 8:49 pm |
Certain high powered abilities should be limited to non PvP events.
Just nipping the resulting 10 page forum war in the bud... |
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Groove Champion Posted Dec 29, 2009, 8:52 pm |
If this becomes necessary, then psionic abilities will not have been chosen properly. We can't have them too powerful or too weak. |
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*Longo* Posted Dec 30, 2009, 9:40 pm |
Body Swap -
Ability to switch places with another allied gang member. For instance, the psionics ganger's car is getting shot up pretty badly and has breached. The psionics ganger swaps places with the gunner of a nearby allied buzzer, into a safe area. Lifetap - Tap into an enemy ganger's activity level and steal some of it and give that activity level to the psionics ganger. |
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Joel Autobaun Posted Dec 30, 2009, 9:49 pm |
I agree - what do you think happens when a ganger is "Psi dragged" out of his car doing 100+mph. That's insta kill. |
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Groove Champion Posted Dec 30, 2009, 10:03 pm |
Does reload in motion work at 100+mph? It's all about setting the right boundaries: in this case the working speed for the skill would have to be considerably lower. The main purpose I think would be to disrupt an enemy in a close-quarter, low speed dogfight. |
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Nekojin Posted Dec 30, 2009, 10:43 pm |
Anything that directly affects an enemy ganger or the car he's riding in should be an opposed Psionics test - the target (or highest Psi character in the targeted car) should get a resistance roll. * * * * * Ideas for powers (All effects are assuming a successful use of the power): Psionic Caltrops - The targeted car behaves like it just ran over dropped spikes. Freak-Out - The targeted ganger (or random ganger in targeted car) fires at the nearest target in range of one of the weapons (chosen at random) on the car. If used on a pedestrian, he fires at the nearest car or ped target. Mental Fugue (or Space-Out): The targeted ganger (or a random ganger in targeted car) does nothing for one turn. If the ganger is driving a car, the car will move using the driving information (steering wheel pitch, target speed, etc.) from the previous turn. AAAAH! SPIDERS!: A random ganger in the target car abandons their assigned gun and driver positions. Force Shove: The targeted car or ganger is moved as though they were just rammed from the direction of the Psi user. The Psi's skill determines the force of the push. For example, a skill 25 Psi Shove would be the equivalent of being hit by a Buggy going 10 MPH, while a 250 Psi Shove might be the equivalent of a Semi going 100 MPH. The "Shove" does not deal damage itself, but the car or ganger may take damage if they're Shoved into something else. Psionic Summons: 1 to 3 turns after successful use, some Wasteland Critters will appear on the map, and behave as they normally would. On a critical success, they will not attack the Psi user or his car. Click: The user remotely detonates from one to five chosen dropped mines on the field as though they were just run over (more skill = more mines possible; more mines = more difficulty). Mines that are still loaded in a dropper may not be affected by this power. Pure Focus: The user substitutes his Psi skill for the requisite weapon skill for the next shot. Super Grip: The user's car performs as though it was using Racing tires on Tarmac for the next 1 to 5 turns. Teleport: The user or user's car "blinks" to a random location within (Psi) feet of its current location. Teleporting a car is much harder than teleporting just the user himself, of course. Psionic Wall: The user puts up an invisible mental wall around himself or his car, protecting him from all damage from external sources (eg, a burning car will still burn). Erecting the Wall does not take any skill roll. The power of the incoming attack determines the difficulty of maintaining the Wall; an attack that breaks the wall causes psychic backlash on the user, depending on how badly he failed the skill roll. * * * * * Back to work... I'll come up with more later. |
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Groovelle Posted Jan 7, 2010, 8:51 am |
Edit:
What if psionics had its own skill bar instead of using the energy bar? After you used up your psionic bar then it would start taking your energy away. Brakes: Causes the driver of the targetted vehicle to slam on the brakes. How much deceleration depends on the psionic force used with 100 slowing as much as possible and using the ebrake. Braking Lasts for X amount of seconds based on psionic skill. Dust: Kicks up the dust under the car, causing a smokescreen effect. |
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FireFly Posted Jan 7, 2010, 9:19 am |
Mental Instability
Puts 1 person in the car of your choice (Ally or Enemy) Under the effects of heavy zerk |
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Groovelle Posted Jan 7, 2010, 9:43 pm |
Deja Vu: A powerful yet dangerous ability. The psionic user receives a vision, seeing there will be trouble ahead.
The user can use this skill any time during a wilderness event. If he successfully uses the skill the event closes and will be restarted. The flip side is if the psionic user fails with the skill he loses all of his psionic powers and falls unconscious. Essentially, it is a second chance if a scout goes horribly wrong. It's a strong one but I see it as being a nice last ditch, dire situation ability. |
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Zephyr Posted Jan 7, 2010, 10:22 pm |
Focused Telekinesis
The psyker reaches out with his mind and takes control of the enemy's car, using telekinesis to turn their wheel or fiddle with the throttle and brakes. If successful, the user can change the steering/throttle/handbrake settings of the target vehicle for a turn. |
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*StCrispin* ce.services.mh@gmail.com Posted Sep 12, 2012, 2:02 am |
These Arn't The Droids... Er... CARS... You're Looking For
Forced truce during travel (or scout I suppose...) |
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Joel Autobaun Posted Sep 12, 2012, 4:54 am |
I know you wrote this 3 years ago but... I actually have a ganger that can reload at 166mph LOL |
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Groove Champion Posted Sep 12, 2012, 11:24 am |
Crazy! What 'reload in motion' level? | ||||||||
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*Bastille* Posted Sep 12, 2012, 11:35 am |
Does anyone use terror? it really does not seem to do much.
Ive heard that during testing this ability was way too powerful, enabling demoralization of half a squad in a 100m radius. I have level 1 terror ability, (240 psi skill), try using it on the last few confident vehicles at the rear, at point blank range (but within car, travelling at speed) while hitting them with heavy weapons, and they still laugh at me. Says more about us reds than anything I guess
Is this a common experience, could this skill be tweaked a bit? Mind Mask seems to work just fine. |
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PvtParty Posted Sep 12, 2012, 12:23 pm |
You just need to get out of the car and stand in front of them; then they'll run away... 
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FireFly Posted Sep 12, 2012, 12:49 pm |
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JS Posted Sep 12, 2012, 1:01 pm |
Yes, terror has had no visible effect fo rme. |
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PvtParty Posted Sep 12, 2012, 1:47 pm |
Since I've not had any experience of Psi powers (my only psi character has a 2 skill points), these may already have been implemented, but here are my suggestions:
1) Detect Psi The Force is strong with this one... - Gives a rough indication of the strength of the most powerful psi in the vicinity (excluding the user of the ability), with no defence. 2) Incapacitate Opponent Vader-esque choke power, preventing target from performing any action, whilst ability in operation. Braking user's concentration would end the effect. Dramatically reduced effectiveness if user and/or target inside a vehicle 3) Bumpy Ride Ability to reset suspension and tyre settings on target vehicle, for a number of rounds (or remainder of combat). 4) Laser Rangefinder Accurately calculate the range and speed of travel of the target vehicle (or ped) to greatly increase the accuracy of any weapons fired at that target from the Psi's vehicle (by him/her or other gangers) for that turn only (unless both user and target remain stationary). |
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*Bastille* Posted Sep 12, 2012, 3:14 pm |
the testers say it was that powerful they would take out 20 cars in one hit, not sure what levels and skill they were using. Has anyone tried this since with a level 2 or 3 mind controller? DE; I fail every time I use that, knock myself out all the time. only level 1, 50psi. |
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JS Posted Sep 12, 2012, 4:07 pm |
Yeah, DE that low is not very good, I have had the same expereince. Around 100 it gets much better. I don't remember where the cascading demo situation was when the testing was done. Might have been stil in effect and perhaps that was some of the issue? Maybe not. Regardless of why, the terror skill seems ineffective. There is a note about it workign better when the character is not in a car. Good luck with that... |
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*Bastille* Posted Sep 12, 2012, 4:54 pm |
lol, yeah, stuff that. | ||||||||
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FireFly Posted Sep 12, 2012, 5:57 pm |
Any psi is unreliable at 50 skill, the reason DE is the best one is because, well, it was actually worse the way I used it in the SCL than Pyro, with less outrage however.
As it stands, DE will negate and and ALL damage during the two turns it's active on a good roll, this means you can soak enough CC shells that would have breached you in 1 turns and still come out fine. That's actually what I did with it (DE1, 100ish skill) against Joel in a match, not sure if the recording is still there but it basically allowed me to "Tank" his entire squad while my other two flanked, I can only imagine a stare in disbelief at that. As for as tactical versatility goes, Pyro had nothing on it. Now here is the kicker, psi use is on a 4 turn cooldown if I recall, now what happens if you put 2/3 or even 4 DE guys in a fire engine? Yeah, tried against the AI, I thought about it but I didnt wanna sink low enough to use it in pvp. (yet) Mind mask is another bucket of fun, able to attack allies without a penalty? Check... Guess I'll let my rare-farm secret out of the bag, must have mentioned it before but *Shrugs*. Get to friend or above (100% truce) with a dangerous faction > Hunt their #### when the gang is at high bounty* > Truce if bad loot, if good > Mind mask, murder everything > Truce return while laughing > Repeat Truth to be honest, I did that before the mind mask was in, it just required a crapton of killing evan reds in GW to maintain the mutant/anarchist rep, but in general it's worth it. The true reason this is so effective is that you do 14 mile scouts, and you can send out your "Elite" party once per hour, even less if it's a gate encounter, if it's a truce it's only 3 minutes at most of active time so it's really time efficient. This also works much better with smaller elite squads as you can finish said events fast. (In my case, a pair of fire engines and interceptors) Oh yeah, you need to figure out what maps give the best rewards to, the difference between the "Very dangerous" and "Kinda dangerous" maps is insane, one will throw lazors and engines at you at 3-6 times the rate of other, with little to no noticeable difference in standard enemy composition. I never had a secondary crew, but I did have a secondary car in case the primaries needed repair downtime. Ya'll see, I didn't actually grind as much as you think, I just got the time/reward ratio in my favor
So, that's why Mind Mask > Defensive Energy > Pyro > Everything else *Mistake a lot of people make, not sure if it's a bug or intentional but Bounty is a way better indicator than fame is, High bounty = The good stuff. This is why you see better loot if you leave a 700-900 fame gang to "Grow" for a day or two, the bounty starts going up a day or so after they max fame. Sign up for the firefly Tips & Trix newsletter today, at the cost of only half your soul you can game the system without cheating like the pro you deserve to be! and be lazy like you know you are... |
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*goat starer* Posted Sep 12, 2012, 7:14 pm |
I got an idea for psionics...
DIE WITCHES! |
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Joel Autobaun Posted Sep 12, 2012, 11:05 pm |
DE is extremely powerful in PvP. I felt it didnt have a place in SCL though....neither does pyro I am glad for no PSI in SCL.
In the wild...well since PvP is pretty much grabass only now, it doesnt matter. |
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*Bastille* Posted Sep 13, 2012, 1:01 am |
could be good time to check the balance of all this again
So.... DE is too powerful - needs to be damage reduction, rather than damage stop. Psi use in car needs to be as if one psi when many. Terror is too weak - Pyro is nasty as all ####, basically, get car lost in 5 turns, but then anything less and it would not be fun/useful |
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Serephe Posted Sep 13, 2012, 2:10 am |
If you want balanced psionics, limit the number of people each gang can have with the skill at one time and make it more common. The more it's used, the faster imbalances are found, the faster changes can be made. Not to mention that it's easier to balance something that everyone has access to rather than something that very near requires hire/fire tactics with a mutant gang. | ||||||||
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Joel Autobaun Posted Sep 13, 2012, 4:25 am |
I dunno mutants die young - I look at tinkers gang( a lot - he's trying to kill me with Latte) And he's scary guys are deteriorating fast. I use to have two (non mutant) Psi. One was about to die of old "age"(y46 drugs age you too), just before he died in a fire.
My other one... well I would probably never risk in PvP even on the last day of my Sub.... Plain truth: Sam needs to waste no more time on PvP balance in Wilderness. Flag says so, the dim witted plebs spoke and elected this Caesarean Ditka upon us. For what ...a couple grabass fights...who cares about balance for that. Into the ruins...camp war--let sam work on this stuff dont waste his time with PvP balance...it's OVER. I dont really want to hear about PvP balance - waste of time like every change done to PvP in last 3 years. |
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*Bastille* Posted Sep 13, 2012, 5:25 am |
eh-hem, PvP balance!
runs and hides behind a slow moving goat |
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JS Posted Sep 13, 2012, 5:30 am |
Mutants are a mistake in the long run. I have a dozen or so that are wasting away at an epic rate. Wish I had realized that earlier... |
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*Bastille* Posted Sep 13, 2012, 5:37 am |
Mutants are fine, Ive had em had their arms and legs shot off and shattered brain by car cannon, all grown back by the end of the fight. Mutants are people too! | ||||||||
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*Tinker* Posted Sep 13, 2012, 10:26 am |
DE is fine imo, i've used it extensively in pve , and have found it's limits even with a DE 4, it's just extra insurance pyro is fine too mindmask is strong, but it's sister terror is weak, does it balance out? not sure, agreed terror is pretty tame, perhaps needs more oumpf, but it's the hardest one of the lot to see if it's actually working, i have no idea how high levels influence stress, i've tested it in SCL by asking the target player to let me know, and if i remember right i had a terror 1 or 2, within 50 meters and used it, and his stress only went up 10 pts i think, it was long ago |
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*Tinker* Posted Sep 13, 2012, 10:28 am |
Bad idea imo, another example of players fking up a great game |
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*Tinker* Posted Sep 13, 2012, 10:34 am |
Not fast enough in my opinion, my guys have been in the gang 10 years, i recon they age twice as fast as regular humans, but the problem if you make em die out faster, fewer will get their 4th specs by that time |
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*Tinker* Posted Sep 13, 2012, 10:38 am |
I reckon sam balanced things pretty well, except maybe for terror, we only had a 2 week testing phase. I did the 50-150 range and FF did 200-400 i believe Maybe a disciplined trustworthy player should do more testing for sam? |
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Serephe Posted Sep 13, 2012, 11:25 am |
I disagree Tinker. I don't believe psionics are balanced at all. Having to replace your characters slightly sooner than another player is a small price to pay for having wizards in your gang.
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FireFly Posted Sep 13, 2012, 12:48 pm |
Currently tinker, they range from most bieng in the "Virtually Usless" category while only two or three sit in "Game changer" | ||||||||
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*Bastille* Posted Sep 13, 2012, 3:30 pm |
I was thinking there probably would be some feedback from others that have used them, that could give an unbiased opinion. As they stand, I do agree a bit with Firefly, seems some are way too powerful, and the ones to pick, and others are not so useful. Also agreed that its hard to tell with terror. but If I cannot demo cars that are already fleeing, when using it in close proximity, maybe a slight increase, or adjustment to the way that works. Pyro - Napalm seems to have a pretty good burn effect, where the flames often go out. Maybe something like that would be more suitable. Ive never used pyro at low skill levels. I chose it at 150 Maybe the powers should be a given , rather than a choice, but that could well make for more argument. |
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*Tinker* Posted Sep 13, 2012, 4:14 pm |
So what is useless category for you? TLK? I love it, dust clouds are useful for helping out friendlies I like mind push too, but it's a little simplified, would prefer more variations, in it's current form it's weak against heavier then muscle chassis, but great fun on sub-compacts, but the reward of the activity drain Vs "1 turn of questionable usefulness" on the heavier chassis is a bit lacking, but realistic i guess. Mind mask? It's the balls out best way to influence factions, and farm all the rares of your faction and keep good relations with the anarchist, not to mention you can rinse and repeat all day if you wanted because THEIR FAME NEVER DROPS AS A RESULT OF THE MASK, HENCE THEY KEEP DISHING OUT FE'S (at least in theory  FF can you give us your feedback on this?)
Terror? never had it work, I had a MC 2 but he died before i got any noticeable positive uses out of him, there must be a trick to using it, i.e. blasting the hell out of them and when they are almost demoed already this should speed things up. Pyro? useless in PvP if they know to stay out of 50 meters range from you, if not .. toast. In PvE useful if in a hairball and within at least 50 meters (less than 10 meters is ideal), 50 m is the AI killing range. DE? the best but has it's limitations, unless you have 4 in the car. It's saved my bacon more then once and that was with a lvl2, but i sure felt lucky because it's nothing guaranteed |
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*Tinker* Posted Sep 13, 2012, 4:17 pm |
I have no idea what happens when you have a lvl 3 pyro that uses only say 30% power multiple times, if it's a success is it the same as a lv1 using 80% power? |
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FireFly Posted Sep 13, 2012, 6:57 pm |
Terror, Tranquility, EMP and Mind Push and while whirlwind is nice, a pseudo smokescreen has nothing on a shield/pyro.
Fame/Bounty is adjusted daily, not hourly, so you've got two full days to farm out a maxed gang, no matter how much you kill.
That, and it can take 5-10 turns for a car to detonate if it does it at all, that's why it's not a sure fire thing, unlike...
This is why, combined with proper tactics it's much more dangerous and versatile than the Pyro, both in PvE and PvP. Mind Push? It is incredibly weak compared to something like shield and pyro, not only is the range short, the push itself is weak and it is countered by weight... Why not simply light the ####er on fire and be done with it? |
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Joel Autobaun Posted Sep 14, 2012, 5:16 am |
I used pyro in SCL and nearly lost friends over it...I have few friends as it is... It's just nasty. DE makes it a cake walk as Firefly described. He dominated me even though I out manoeuvred him twice. No I disagree with you, SCL is better without it. |
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*Maxxed* Posted Nov 1, 2012, 4:02 am |
I remember at least one scout where this was useful...but could probably be amped slightly without it being unbalancing.
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*Maxxed* Posted Nov 1, 2012, 5:11 am |
Pyro6 made instant fireballs by the way...no waiting to see if the fire caused it to explode.... | ||||||||
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*goat starer* Posted Nov 1, 2012, 8:46 pm |
sodding witches
I say burn them all |