*Grograt* gary.r.horder@gmail.com Posted Nov 6, 2009, 3:22 pm	I started a discussion concerning shantyvilles future thought it deserved its on thread. *Grograt* said: but it was opened to counter the lack of PVP due to un used camp wars system, we now have PVP rolled back with a better looking system so shantys conception has been negated. With no npc market and no player support ( i myself and a good few others have pulled out of shanty ) it will be as under used if not more so than Elms, it also imo needs a niche of its own, the RP idea behind shanty is very sound maybe we could broaden the towns gypsy leanings ? *Ayjona* said: Yes, I'm all for broadening its concept, and giving it a conceptual niche. Good idea, with the gypsy tone. But it has a lot of value as another Darkwind settlement as well, in-canon- and story-wise, even if not expanded. As for Elms, it is my favourite Darkwind city, and during my active periods, I regularily scout from it. Evan is still a rather small open world simulation. While a 100 000+ star systems gaming universe might not make the players cheer with joy if another system is added, so far, every new village in Darkwind makes a difference. *sam* said: I'm open to suggestions for shantyville's future! Marrkos said: Could it be used to test market restrictions, i.e. item X is only available in Shanty so players have to either get there to buy it, or rely on other players to ship it North? Don't know what 'item X' would be.....maybe a Gatling Gun that's been modified to be a Medium Gatling Gun, or something else that wouldn't require the RP to involve the complete manufacture of the item. *Grograt* said: Agreed *Ayjona* we certainly love our new towns and shanty maps are great, just the lack of impetus to be there at present is a downer, i like marrkos idea of a special market place allowing for ' gypsy / rogue trader type one of equipment as in the MGG ( also a great way to introduce new weapons and check for game balance if only a few are releasd ) but of course a system ( fair ) of obtaining these items would need to be put in place, just camping a member in town and scanning the market every five seconds, shouldn't allow for the purchase of these items ( what ever they may be ) Tell you what ill open another thread eh  and quote what we have already
Marrkos Posted Nov 6, 2009, 4:21 pm	*Grograt* said: but of course a system ( fair ) of obtaining these items would need to be put in place What if it were a matter of taking the original item in, giving it to the NPCs, and some amount of time later getting the new item back? Variations on that could be that the new item requires the original plus car parts, scrap, plastics, whatever, or 2 of the original make one of the new. I'm not sure I'm overly-enthused about this particular idea, actually.  I can foresee a lot of camp owners being upset that a squatters' town can make stuff the camps can't.
*Grograt* gary.r.horder@gmail.com Posted Nov 6, 2009, 4:30 pm	Squatters town i like it lol, maybe we should stay away from a production system then. Off course the idea of shanty creating new weapon types would be dependent on whether sam wants more to be introduced into the game ( sam ? ) do we think shanty now needs an NPC market to some degree, or would we want the market to still be player driven only, if the latter then shanty needs another incentive apart from scouting, some way to sell on or use the loot thats is gained there, FL has the gladiator combats and major piracy ( supposedly ) If shanty is barter town in essence then how about a thunder dome, betting, pink slip racing, mutant town even, well im sure the mutes would have their own township by now in some form, nothing better than a ramshackle assortment of buildings that have been reclaimed from the wastes, oh yeh thats exactly what shanty looks like eh so could shanty be the capital of mutant activity, with their corresponding trade caravans , gangs et all ? All i can think about now is strontium dog and 2000 ad from the 70's lol
*goat starer* Posted Nov 6, 2009, 4:42 pm	i think it should be a place for the almost mystical mechs... ableto repair anything for a fee including permadamage... but it should be REALLY dangerous... both PVP and very tough PVE
Marrkos Posted Nov 6, 2009, 4:46 pm	Able to repair perma-damage? No thanks.
Fealty Lost Posted Nov 6, 2009, 4:58 pm	Why not make it a "Road Warrior" camp producing fuel? Gives EVERYONE a reason to trade/attack/defend the place 24/7. Unless it's decided they built the place on the site of an abandoned military weapons-testing lab or something, I dunno about the weird weaponry thing. Or, this could be an opportunity to introduce 'custom' devices, like frame-straigheners, alignment machines...and their reverse-engineering, that would allow the place to start producing same? ...eventually? I'll probably never get there, but I think those that put in the time and effort to start new towns/camps should be doing so because of [[ for RP reasons ]] newly discovered caches of equipment/weaponry/resources...as should those who already own camps. I mean, why would you waste time and effort to just set something up in the middle of nowhere, unless it had access to SOMETHING that made you want to risk your life to do so? .02 [[ but worth SO much more ]]
*goat starer* Posted Nov 6, 2009, 5:03 pm	Marrkos said: Able to repair perma-damage?  No thanks. you are the rudest person in this game Markkos.. just try being polite for once in your life you snarkly little toerag. And yes.. make it able to repair perma damage.. make it really hard to get inn or out alive but make it a place where IF you can get your renowned buzzer there the mechs can work miracles. Make it able to customise weapons.. strengthern chassis, all sorts of stuff but make it expensive and dangerous.. also make it have a possibility that you will be ripped off! It would be fun.
FireFly Posted Nov 6, 2009, 5:12 pm	Or we could just have it change position with BL, so you would have a deadzone right in the middle of the map (Would perhaps kick its market of to, since it would get heavier traffic)
Fealty Lost Posted Nov 6, 2009, 5:13 pm	I agree Goat'...I mean, story-wise and RP wise...how many new-car dealerships were there in the world? How many had FULL body shops? Wouldn't all the equipment to repair chassis/frames, etc., be buried there? Perhaps Shanty' was built on top of the ruins of one of these places that managed to remain intact...by sliding underground from the resulting earthquake that shook the area? This would have allowed the equipment to remain in good working order until someone stumbled upon it...maybe because they drove over it and a sink-hole opened up, swallowing the first vehicle? Anyway...again, camps should have 'special' abilities [[ even retroactive ]] because, why else build one there? I dunno about ripping people off; remember what happened when some of you bought a bridge?
Marrkos Posted Nov 6, 2009, 5:16 pm	goat starer said: Marrkos said: Able to repair perma-damage?  No thanks. you are the rudest person in this game Markkos.. just try being polite for once in your life you snarkly little toerag. The irony is quite thick.  goat starer said: And yes.. make it able to repair perma damage.. I don't think there should be any way to reverse perma-damage, just like I don't think there should be a way to reverse perma-death. goat starer said: make it really hard to get inn or out alive but make it a place where IF you can get your renowned buzzer there the mechs can work miracles. Make it able to customise weapons.. strengthern chassis, all sorts of stuff but make it expensive and dangerous.. also make it have a possibility that you will be ripped off! It would be fun. I'm sure it would be a lot of fun, but that doesn't make me want to see perma-damage...not permanent.
*Grograt* gary.r.horder@gmail.com Posted Nov 6, 2009, 5:17 pm	I think it needs a lot more than just being a repair centre for perma damaged equipment ( and to be honest im not sure i like the idea of negating perma ) moving shanty would be too much of an upheaval to the game world imo, giving shanty a unique slant is what is required, its a low down scum area so im not sure about the buried super GM motors centre either lol.
*goat starer* Posted Nov 6, 2009, 5:37 pm	*Grograt* said: I think it needs a lot more than just being a repair centre for perma damaged equipment ( and to be honest im not sure i like the idea of negating perma ) moving shanty would be too much of an upheaval to the game world imo, giving shanty a unique slant is what is required, its a low down scum area so im not sure about the buried super GM motors centre either lol. gro.. i'm not talking about shiny factories.. i am talking about the quasi mystic dudes who live in a mad out of the way place and tinker with technology. vehicles that came out of here would not be pristine ... they would be different.. stronger, lots of jerry build but effective things. Its pure post apoc (unlike say sars or texan - which dont have anything very postapocalyptic about them at all) Marrkos said: The irony is quite thick.  rather like you then. As demonstrated by.... Marrkos said: I don't think there should be any way to reverse perma-damage, just like I don't think there should be a way to reverse perma-death. these are 2 quite different issues.. we cant raise the dead.. but there is no reason on earth why you cant get a vehicle back to a near mint condition.. Terry Pratchett got this right talking about family heirloom wepons... over the years you replace the hilt, the handle, the blade but the weapon is still the same one.. In the worst cases you would simply use a new chassis (although why would you need to when the existing one is 93% good). Marrkos said: I'm sure it would be a lot of fun, but that doesn't make me want to see perma-damage...not permanent. you dont like fun do you sweetie? Most of us play for fun. You seem to play to make snarky one line unexplained attacks on people in the forums. Its getting really old.
*Longo* Posted Nov 6, 2009, 5:52 pm	For the danger of the town - PVP encounters are non-cr balancing. Hey, its rough here, if your gonna run your muscle car courier thru here, you just may encounter 3 buzzers and and apache scouting...
Marrkos Posted Nov 6, 2009, 6:10 pm	Longo said: For the danger of the town -  PVP encounters are non-cr balancing. Hey, its rough here, if your gonna run your muscle car courier thru here, you just may encounter 3 buzzers and and apache scouting...  Do you think that would create an entry barrier that would be so high (people afraid to risk it) it would cause Shanty to remain under-utilized?
*jimmylogan* Posted Nov 6, 2009, 6:14 pm	With a choice of uneven CR that you can bounty out of versus the Maze and longer travel? Yeah, I'd chance it. :-)
*goat starer* Posted Nov 6, 2009, 6:55 pm	Marrkos said: Longo said: For the danger of the town -  PVP encounters are non-cr balancing. Hey, its rough here, if your gonna run your muscle car courier thru here, you just may encounter 3 buzzers and and apache scouting...  Do you think that would create an entry barrier that would be so high (people afraid to risk it) it would cause Shanty to remain under-utilized? not if the benefit was large enough
simonmaxhill Posted Nov 6, 2009, 6:57 pm	I'd be into this, sort of a "town unlimited!" type of situation. Maybe set up a very lucrative trading route through Shanty to Texan? Motivate people to go through that way instead of through Sars? And do away with NPC Cr balancing through that route as well?
*Ninesticks* Posted Nov 6, 2009, 7:29 pm	Yep I would agree with Jimmy's point, maybe a larger percentage in CR balancing allowed rather than no balance at all. I still scout out of Shanty, because I like the fact that every box of ammo, weapon and tyre means something other than cash in the bank. I also do it so that I can try and keep the piracy levels down at least a little bit for my convoys passing through (the Texan-Shanty-Bl legs are definitely the most dangerous IMO). From my viewpoint the thing that spoils to some degree the Shanty experience is the requirement to use money for repairs and fuel etc. I would love to see Shanty used to experiment with a pure barter system - no money at all.
*goat starer* Posted Nov 6, 2009, 7:50 pm	*Ninesticks* said: I still scout out of Shanty, because I like the fact that every box of ammo, weapon and tyre means something other than cash in the bank. you see i hate to say it Nine but that is really easy to say when you have a billion squillion dollars in the bank... Would hate Shanty to turn into a billionaires playground where they can go slumming it with the plebs.
FireFly Posted Nov 6, 2009, 8:21 pm	Shanty should be what it is, no "shop", no extensive repairs, and switch place with badlands, its brilliant, EVERYONE has to go trough it to get anywhere, and thus, the market would be filled with new life, since people will truck trough there. Maybe go even further, have people "work" there, just like in a camp, to fix gear up
4saken Posted Nov 6, 2009, 9:00 pm	I like Shanty staying... shanty. Not some place with uber-rare equipment manufacturing. With no NPC market all goods are either shipped in or looted. This gives it a much more hardcore, post-apocalyptic  flavor. It's really the only place in the game with that right now. Being out of the way it also makes it so it doesn't make it hard for newbies to struggle to survive, but Shanty is there if you like the challenge. You could even make a Mad Max style hardcore game-within-a-game. Just hire 3 newbs in Shanty and give them no outside help. Let them fend strictly by looting and player trade. Such a thing would also test that style of economy to see if it is, in fact, even playable and viable on a larger scale. I am fine with Shanty being where it is, which is on the fuel trade short-cut route from Texan. You can try the Shanty run or go the long way through Sars and back. This doesn't mean much now but I expect another Evan-wide fuel shortage before long. I also am a big fan of regional factions rather than the simple "good" vs "evil" thing we have now which makes little sense. If we had a faction system Shanty could easily be the Mutie home base, much as SS in the Normy home base. I really, really like this idea, in fact, applied to Shanty. In short, keep your non-grubby Club Med paws off of my Shantyville. Keep it nasty/grungy/mutie/hardcore. Also to Goat and Marrkos: Don't make me use this.
Joel Autobaun Posted Nov 6, 2009, 9:19 pm	I'm not going to shanty and PvPing there unless I can run it.(having to beat up everyone else of course - maybe just have the highest "pvp rating" runs shanty town.)
Marrkos Posted Nov 6, 2009, 9:28 pm	What does 'run it' mean to you? Supplying the mechs to repair cars, or just taking a cut of the income? Paying the NPCs that work there? Would it end up being like a camp from a management perspective? Control based on 'pvp rating' (whatever that means at this point*) would be interesting. I wonder if the DB is set up in a way that would allow the controlling player to rename it, and have it reflected on the maps... * - points for combats won, loot recovered, ???
*Tinker* Posted Nov 7, 2009, 3:11 am	If you want to make shanty more useful, bring back the oils shortages, make shanty more dangerous for your scouts (especially while driving thru it) unless you got people scouting there, locals that help your convoys thru and refilling your gaz tanks there without needing your own cans just seems wrong
Joel Autobaun Posted Nov 7, 2009, 8:15 am	Marrkos said: What does 'run it' mean to you? Supplying the mechs to repair cars, or just taking a cut of the income?  Paying the NPCs that work there?  Would it end up being like a camp from a management perspective? Control based on 'pvp rating' (whatever that means at this point*) would be interesting.  I wonder if the DB is set up in a way that would allow the controlling player to rename it, and have it reflected on the maps... * - points for combats won, loot recovered, ??? This is just a perfect opportunity for throwing away all kinds of high end equipment at each other for the purposes of saying "I RUN SHANTYVILLE!". Yes you "beat" the most player CR in a week(or whatever Sam can track).  You RUN SHANTY TOWN.  Shanty don't give a crap about fame, shanty don't need no stinking players mechs.  Shanty has a base MR of say...whatever the hell the TOP MR is out in LALALA land(camps) only shanty don't have to work for it.  Shanty got slaves, shanty steals parts and makes chassis', engines, weapons whatever that top MR gets it.  All you gotta do is beat everyone else up(ok not everyone).  The market/mechshop/bar are not "controlled" by shantymaster, they are "open" so others can still challenge.  Shantymaster gets a free camp though(for as long as he can hold it).
Fealty Lost Posted Nov 7, 2009, 5:00 pm	That could be some serious fun...in replays. Of course, you'd need some big-time players with some big-time cajones...and do we really have that in DW? Great ideas though. ...even though I'll never drive out there, watching the fun on the tele' would be fun.
Groove Champion Posted Nov 7, 2009, 7:22 pm	Whatever happens to Shanty, it shouldn't draw all players away from the South. Sure Shanty should be special in some way, but if it becomes 'over-powered', players might travel there and cut the South our of their habitual routes. From a logisitical/strategic point of view, it's far too easy to get to Shanty versus BL/SF/FL for Shanty to offer much more than its southern counterparts.